A new episode of The Josh Marshall Podcast is live! This week, Josh and Kate are joined by TPM investigative reporter Josh Kovensky to talk all things Georgia indictment.

You can listen to the new episode of The Josh Marshall Podcast here.

Plus two bonus pods! 

The Trial Will Be Televised

Josh and Kate do a mini-pod to discuss the fourth indictment of Donald Trump out of Georgia.

Plead the Fifth

Josh and Kate discuss the Fifth Circuit’s newest mifepristone ruling in a mini-pod.

One of the many interesting details in Josh Kovensky’s podcast interview with independent Russian journalist Mikhail Zygar was the discussion of what often seems like Vladimir Putin’s very American culture war politics. To Americans, these statements by Putin can come off as almost a kind of trolling or part of some common rightist, authoritarian playbook. Zygar argued that they are, for the most part, not aimed at Putin’s domestic audience. In short, Putin decided over the last decade that he needed new international allies. And those allies were less a set of particular countries — or not only that — than the right and far-right in North America and Europe. As an example, Zygar argued that Russia’s recent crackdown on trans rights had very little grounding in Russia’s domestic political dialog. It’s not that Russians are pro-trans rights. It just isn’t something that has much salience either way. The crackdown was more something Putin did to deepen his bond with the global right.

From TPM Reader AC who knows quite a bit about the history of the racketeering statutes.

Can I remind people that no president in history has ever acted MORE STEREOTYPICALLY LIKE A GANGSTER than Trump?  He owned casinos.  He has deep connections in the New York City construction industry.  His son-in-law’s father did time for extortion.  He calls people who inform on him “rats.”  He bullies.  He threatens to expose people’s private shame to obtain endorsements.  He filled his administration with pro wrestling magnates and failed movie producers.  His campaign manager’s family made their money building jai alai frontons in Connecticut.  One of his top advisors was Felix Sater, an alleged organized crime figure who has done time for stabbing a guy in the face.  His former personal attorney got his start hanging out at a Russian gangster social club. 

Do I need to go on?  If Trump wants to suggest the law wasn’t intended for men like him, then perhaps he should try acting like a normal politician or businessman rather than a crime lord from a movie

For those of you who are subscribers/listeners to The Josh Marshall Podcast, Kate Riga and I just recorded a special instapod on today’s mifepristone decision from the 5th circuit, in addition to today’s regularly scheduled weekly pod. So that special episode should be showing up on your device some time later today if you subscribe.

You’ve probably noticed that Donald Trump has announced that he’s holding a press conference Monday in which he’ll release a 100-page report which shows both that the 2020 election in Georgia was “stolen” and that all charges against him and his criminal associates should be dropped. In other words, he’s responding to the charges by doubling down on the Big Lie. This isn’t surprising. Trump only has one gear — all-in and over-the-top. But as Clark Neily says in this post at CATO, “Being an inveterate liar is a major liability in litigation.”

He also has an apt description of who Trump is. These are all points we’ve made before. But it’s a tight and concise run-through.

There seems to be a consensus that the coup indictments out of Georgia are unexpectedly strong. I don’t know why it’s “unexpected” or exceeded expectations. The Fulton County DA’s office has been working on this for a very long time and they’ve always seemed in earnest about it, even when it was unclear whether federal investigators were focused on the people at the top of the conspiracy. But it’s a reminder that Georgia was always unique in the broader story of Trump’s failed coup. It’s not simply that there was a more aggressive local prosecutor on hand.

Reminder: Your TPM evening briefing, written by me, has moved to a new location — same time, same place, but we’ve moved it out of the editor’s blog and onto the main frontpage.

Court has convened in Atlanta at this late hour. The presumption – unconfirmed – is that state Judge Robert McBurney will accept the grand jury’s indictment(s) in the 2020 election interference case. Follow our coverage here.

For those of you following along at home, your TPM evening briefing, written by me, has moved to a new location — same time, same place, but we’ve moved it out of the editor’s blog and onto the main frontpage. You can now find Where Things Stand over here ➡︎➡︎➡︎

As you know, there’s been chatter about whether President Biden should pardon Donald Trump. Of course, before that there was a lot of discussion about whether Trump should be indicted at all. (Jack Goldsmith is still discussing it.) In both cases, the reasoning, such as it is, has been about bringing the country together, avoiding national divisions or sparking a pattern of tit-for-tat presidential prosecutions. It’s also possible the same underlying question could come up again.

There are some who think there’s a non-trivial chance that at some point perhaps early next year Trump will seek a plea deal. I really can’t imagine that happening. But some people whose common sense and judgment I put a lot of stock in do. Their reasoning isn’t bad. If you put all these cases together Trump is highly likely to be spending the rest of his his life in prison. Staying out of jail requires winning the 2024 election. He might get lucky in one venue. He might get a hung jury. He might beat some of the charges. But even batting .500 likely gets a de facto life term. And Trump, for all his bluster, is deeply risk averse. That’s where the plea deal idea comes in. Again, I think this is unlikely. But if it does we will come back to the same question, how much punishment is required? Either for justice, equality under the law or deterrence. Can he bow out of the race, admit to some offenses and get off with a comparatively light global sentence? What would justify that?

My reason for writing this post today is that I think this way of looking at the question gets the calculus wrong. The news David covers today, of Trump spending the weekend attacking DC district Judge Tanya Chutkan, explains why. This entire range of cases Trump faces, indeed Trump’s whole decade-long smash and grab run through American public life, is about one thing: who is bigger? The American republic, the state, or Donald Trump?