It has been a rollercoaster couple of days for Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani. He broke major news on Sunday when he said, for the first time, that President Donald Trump and Michael Cohen were in talks to develop Trump Tower Moscow all the way through Election Day 2016. He tried to walk the comments back on Monday, claiming that he was speaking in hypotheticals.
On Monday, in a conversation with the New Yorker, Giuliani changed his tune yet again, and reflected candidly about what being this President’s lawyer will do to his legacy.
He insisted that, though the conversations about the Tower did not take place, it would not matter if they did since it’s not a crime.
“He didn’t have the conversations,” Giuliani said of Trump. “Lawyers argue in the alternative. If we went to court, we would say we don’t have to prove whether it’s true or not true, because, even if it’s true, it’s not criminal. And that’s why Mueller will not charge him with it.”
He continued in the same confusing manner of speaking, insisting that the conversations didn’t happen before trying to lay a safety net in case they did.
“I am not saying that he did it. I just told you he didn’t do it,”Giuliani said. “I am telling you that their investigation is so ridiculous that, even if he did do it, it wouldn’t be a crime.”
He also had an odd slip about the existence of tapes.
“Because I have been through all the tapes, I have been through all the texts, I have been through all the e-mails, and I knew none existed,” he said as evidence that the Moscow conversations were not happening.
When pressed by his interviewer, he immediately backtracked.
“I shouldn’t have said tapes,” he said, adding: “No tapes. Well, I have listened to tapes, but none of them concern this.”
He got somewhat more straightforward while reflecting on his legacy.
“Absolutely,” Giuliani said about if he’s worried that lying for Trump will stain his legacy. “I am afraid it will be on my gravestone. “Rudy Giuliani: He lied for Trump.” Somehow, I don’t think that will be it. But, if it is, so what do I care? I’ll be dead. I figure I can explain it to St. Peter.”
He added that he is proud of his work, which has been about defending the President against a media that wants to unfairly impugn him.