CNN host Chris Cuomo and former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani sparred over the public perception of Donald Trump’s frequently inflammatory comments in a 32-minute-long exchange Thursday morning.
While Cuomo maintained that Trump, as the nominee of a major political party, bears responsibility for the public remarks he made, Giuliani insisted that the “Clinton spin machine” and media unfairly twist the real estate tycoon’s words.
“He makes a joke that winds up becoming the story,” Cuomo said of Trump’s remark on Tuesday that “Second Amendment people” could prevent Hillary Clinton from appointing Supreme Court justices if she is elected president.
“It wasn’t a joke,” Giuliani, who has insisted that Trump “very clearly” meant pro-gun-rights voters could keep her from winning in November.
“Well, you’re not saying he had serious intentions about encouraging Second Amendment people to do something bad?” Cuomo replied.
“Of course not,” Giuliani said, before insisting again that Trump did not encourage violence against his opponent.
“He said don’t vote for her,” Giuliani insisted, though Trump never mentioned the word vote while charging that Clinton would “abolish” the Second Amendment. “It is the Clinton spin machine.”
“No, it isn’t,” Cuomo shot back.
This back-and-forth continued as the pair touched on Trump calling President Barack Obama “the founder” of the Islamic State terror group, criticizing Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) for being held as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, and refusing to release his tax returns.
Cuomo referred to Trump’s habit of making incendiary remarks as a “pattern.”
“This is what the man does. He says things that are either casual or hyperbolic to impress a crowd, and then they go too far and he refuses to apologize and blames the media,” Cuomo said. “It’s happened at least 10 times that I could name right off the top of my head.”
“Hillary Clinton is trying to paint a demonic picture of Donald Trump because she was engaged in significant criminal activity,” Giuliani replied. “The e-mails, we know about—”
“She is beating him in the polls, some would suggest, exactly because of this behavior,” Cuomo said. “That he should be winning right now based on the mood of the country but for his own temperament and actions and what comes out of his mouth.”
Giuliani repeatedly tried to pivot the conservation towards Clinton, saying the press didn’t pay enough attention to her use of a private email server or to the provenance of donations to the Clinton Foundation.
“Who says more things that confound reason?” Cuomo asked. “Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton?”
“Hillary Clinton,” Giuliani said.
“On a regular basis?”
“On a regular basis.”
Though they seemed to be talking past each other for much of the interview, Cuomo’s insistence on pressing the former mayor to address questions won grudging appreciation.
“Tough, but fair,” Giuliani said as the marathon conversation concluded.
Watch a clip of the interview below courtesy of Media Matters.
