Really feeling like my investment of time and heart in the Mittster is not being rewarded here. I was expecting him to effectively demagogue the immigration issue versus McCain. But he can’t even speak comprehensibly. I can’t even tell what he’s talking about. Each of them are like a matadors sticking those long sticks into the Mitt bull.
I mean, I can’t take this. Romney’s making Rudy look good.
8:18 PM … I’m wondering if Rudy is realizing that his dreams of presidential glory are over and so he figures he might as well re-embrace some of the reasonable things he did as Mayor.
8:22 PM … Huckabee’s argument makes so much sense. Illegals will agree to deport themselves because if they don’t and we catch them we’ll deport them. Makes sense.
8:25 PM … Finally my guy Mitt is getting his shoulder into it.
8:26 PM … Whatever happens in this election, whoever wins, we’ll all be able to agree that the complete humiliation of Fred Thompson made it all worthwhile.
8:28 PM … This is killing me. I don’t think Romney’s embrace of Barack Obama as the new centerpiece of his presidential agenda just isn’t going to cut it.
8:37 PM … I think this debate format is good in as much as that it has clearly made each of the candidates forget they’re involved in an election. Especially Thompson.
8:39 PM … Rudy: Ike committed the US to putting a man on the moon; Nixon got it done.
At this point it seems clear that the big take away from the Republican debate is that these are six pretty tired old guys who can barely get enthusiastic enough to answer the questions. Talk about dialing it in.
Have to say I’m disappointed in the Mittster. I had pretty high hopes. But he was being slapped around up there like the dorky kid in the High School locker room. It was sad. And Mitt’s inner humorlessness did not serve him well.
8:50 PM … Stephanopoulos agrees: Mitt blew it. Defensive, inarticulate, and just generally sad sac.
TPM Reader CS … “Is it me, or do Thompson and McCain seem like those old guys who sit in the balcony on the Muppets? Cranky, cranky. Also, they could be compared to the old guy neighbor who exclaimed “Kid, get that ball outta my yard.” There was definitely some of that. There was actually one moment where Thompson perfectly channeled Mr. Burns from the Simpsons. I’m going to have go back and grab that picture.
One more post-Iowa poll in New Hampshire. This one is from Research 2000, and it shows things basically unchanged between Obama and Hillary. Each picked up a couple of points since the last poll, and Obama still leads by a point.
But big movement on the GOP side, where, according to these numbers, John McCain is soaring.
When Obama started off, I thought he was a little iffy and uninspired in his response. But then the rest of the three were each worst than the last. So now I don’t know what to think.
9:26 PM … In fairness to all the candidates in both debates, the fatigue from all of them is palpable.
9:38 PM … Okay, now we’re getting somewhere. Starting at about 9:30, that was a very powerful exchange. I’m not certain who got the better of it in as much as I think each of the three hit their key points effectively. Obama’s very solid. Edwards really tried to slam the door on Hillary permanently. She was … I’m not certain what the right word is, enraged? But it was a good response. Impassioned in ways that I think will play very well with some and probably not well with others. But really captured her argument as well as, I think you have to say, her anger at being in this position.
They started out sort of shambling. They’re each clearly and very understandably worn out. (Not as much Richardson. But then, hey, he’s not really in the race.) Then they engaged. And I found myself being proud of them as a group, because the caliber of the discussion was so much higher than that of the Republicans. But the real engagement happened at about 9:30 on the topic of change. I noted what was said in the post below. But since then, it seems like that was the emotional crux of the debate. Like the key points were aired and the emotional tension was broken. After that the energy sort of drained out of the discussion.
So, a few observations about the Democratic debate.
First, a few months ago, I said that I didn’t get what Barack Obama thought he was doing in one of the debates, that he was doing a very good job debating as the frontrunner, when in fact he was falling further and further behind Hillary Clinton. It showed tonight. There are a lot of differences between now and then. And I thought he had a good night. But tonight was an example where his style worked much better when he’s on top. He parried Clinton pretty well. And I don’t think she really laid a glove on him.
As I wrote earlier, I think the debate started in a pretty shambling fashion. Then it began to engage and built to a pivotal, even defining exchange on the subject of change around 9:30 PM. Obama made his case. Significantly, Edwards largely agreed with Obama to the effect of trying to close the door on Hillary’s candidacy. Hillary was clearly pissed and responded with what you probably consider (depending on your perspective) either an impassioned or enraged response (perhaps both) that I think very articulately and effectively described her argument for her candidacy. I think that Hillary moment will become a Rorschach for voters around the country.
You can see it here …
John Edwards also had, I thought, a very strong debate, particularly in the latter half of the debate. He talks a lot about feeling this fight in his blood and being a fighter. And it’s important when you say things like that that it really resonates in what you say, how you act, who you seem to be. And I think it did on every count. Unfortunately for Hillary, most of the eloquence and fire was directed at her tonight.
The exchange I noted earlier from around 9:30 PM was the emotional, dramatic crux of the evening. After that a lot of the energy seemed to be released from the discussion. Not in a bad way necessarily. I thought each of them had very good moments in the second half. But that was the crux of the debate, where the key points were enunciated, and each candidate defined.
In general, I think Obama’s the winner tonight. I think Hillary made her case well. I think Edwards had the best debate. But the debate can only be understood in the context of the moment. Right now, Obama’s on fire. The first post-Iowa polls show him picking up a big post-caucus bump. He needed to come off well. Not make any mistakes. And not let Hillary open up any strong line of attack against him. And I think he did each one of those things. Which means he gave some reassurance to those who might be hesitating to get on the bandwagon and didn’t do or allow anything to happen which significantly changes the trend of the moment, which is moving heavily in his favor.
A complete wrap-up of the Democratic debate at TPM Election Central.
Obama hurting McCain and helping Mitt? Apparently so. The numbers from New Hampshire shortly . . .
Zogby has just put out its latest New Hampshire tracking poll. Obama continues to gain on Hillary, as more post-Iowa data is added to the sample.