Three Little-Known—But Crucial—Conversations With Rushmore Presidents

File - This undated file photo shows the statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln at Mount Rushmore in South Dakota. Gov. Dennis Daugaard will talk about how South Dakota to... File - This undated file photo shows the statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln at Mount Rushmore in South Dakota. Gov. Dennis Daugaard will talk about how South Dakota tourism, a huge industry for the state, performed in 2014 on Thursday, Jan. 22, 2015. He'll also unveil the state's new campaign to attract visitors to South Dakota. (AP Photo/File) MORE LESS
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Whatever your take on the historical accuracy or fairness of the LBJ-MLK sequences in Selma, those scenes remind us of a key fact: that a presidency is defined far more by conversation than by isolated action. From elementary school on, it seems to be all about those individual figures: their portraits in sequence, their faces on Mount Rushmore, their names memorized and associated with policies and controversies. Yet just as Johnson and his administration were so deeply connected to King, so too should we remember all our presidents—and especially our most famous ones—through the conversations that helped shape them and their eras. Here are three under-remembered examples, from three of those Rushmore icons.

George Washington wasn’t president yet in March 1776—America hadn’t even declared independence—but he was already the commander of the Continental army and the incipient rebellion’s most prominent leader. So when he received the young African American-poet and slave Phillis Wheatley for a conversation at his Cambridge headquarters, it was a striking and significant moment. Wheatley, ever bold in words and deed, had sent her 1775 poem “To His Excellency George Washington” and an accompanying letter to the General, who was sufficiently impressed to write back and request a meeting. Slavery was still legal in Massachusetts at the time, and the meeting thus certainly highlights the era’s inequities. But it would be abolished in the state a few years later, thanks to slave petitions that utilized the Revolution’s own ideas and language in support of their cause—as did Wheatley in poems such as “To the Right Honorable William, Earl of Dartmouth” (1773), making this 1776 meeting a conversation between two visionary revolutionaries.

In February 1865, Abraham Lincoln was in the heat of the Civil War’s bloody final months, as well as the extended push for the 13th Amendment captured by the recent film Lincoln (2013). Both of those histories were connected to a conversation left out of Spielberg’s film: between Lincoln and African-American doctor, journalist and novelist Martin Delany. Delany was also and most saliently an empassioned advocate of African-American Civil War soldiers, and his conversation with Lincoln represented the culmination of those efforts. It not only resulted in his being named the first commissioned African-American field officer, but itcontributed significantly to Lincoln’s support for African-American officers within the expanding U.S. Colored Troops regiments. Delany wrote at times in favor of the creation and population of African nations such as Liberia, reflecting his fears that the period’s American racism could not be overcome. But whether refusing to leave cholera-stricken Pittsburgh (during both the 1833 and 1854 epidemics), working with freed slaves in postwar South Carolina, or meeting with Lincoln to help African-American officers hasten the war’s conclusion, Delany also dedicated his life to his countrymen, making this 1865 meeting a conversation between two selfless leaders.

Teddy Roosevelt had been president for less than a year when, in October 1901, he made history by inviting Booker T. Washington to be the first African American to dine publicly with a president. Washington was still segregated in the period—a condition that would only deepen over time, as Woodrow Wilson segregated the federal government as one of his first presidential actions a dozen years after this dinner—and Roosevelt’s invitation generated substantial national debate and controversy. As the Washington and Lincoln examples illustrate, Roosevelt was only making more public the kind of conversations and relationships—across cultural and racial lines—that had long informed and influenced our leaders. Yet the very act of making such a moment public and official was bold nonetheless—and both the president and his “Guest of Honor” (as Deborah Davis’s book names Washington) thus represented vital steps along this historical trajectory.

We can’t carve additional faces on Mount Rushmore, nor necessarily add historical portraits to those elementary school rosters. But on this and every Presidents’ Day, we can and should remember not just these singular figures, but the crucial conversations that truly define their eras and our nation.

Ben Railton is an Associate Professor of English at Fitchburg State University and a member of the Scholars Strategy Network.

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  1. “We can’t carve additional faces on Mount Rushmore”

    Says who? Plus we could blow up a couple of those and start over with more modern ones. Who remembers those guys anyway I know George Washingten is the one with the muppet nose but the two on the right look like Haggar and Guile to me lol

  2. Wow! What an insight! Presidents have important conversations - sometimes with unlikely people. Who knew? In typical fashion, the author forces that fact into the artificial argument that those conversations are more significant than presidential actions. Of course, conversations often are themselves actions. When TR hosted Booker T. Washington for dinner, it was a hugely controversial action.
    By the way, Professor Railton, you can add Julian Bond to the long list of people who believe “Selma” was wrong to distort history as it related to MLK and LBJ.

  3. Interesting that the author leaves Jefferson out. If we’re going to talk about how great the Presidents up on Mt. Rushmore were, while trying to address the issue of race, why not address how one of those Presidents in particular worked actively against those ideas. Leaving him out of this article, without mentioning his obvious hypocrisy, is an omission that keeps finding its way past the official record, or allowed to be footnoted in history books through articles like this…(even that wasn’t done by this author here.)

    Here’s an interesting piece I read the other day by Denise Oliver Velez at DailyKos who’s more than done her research in this area. She talks about Jefferson’s desire to cling to slavery even as he pronounced “All Men are Equal” in our Declaration of Independence. If we want to look back in history at these men, let us look without dewy eyes and sentimentality to the true nature of their beings. Our Founding Fathers were no saints and we’d all be better off as a country not to put them too high up on that pedestal. This article should have never left out Jefferson if it wanted to talk about race…or Mt. Rushmore for that matter. That’s just a little too convenient for some.

    Here’s the link to the article I read: (interesting stuff)

  4. By the way…we don’t get our mail today, do we? Fucking Presidents Day! Now go out and buy those mattresses people.

  5. He left out Jefferson. He certainly had a series of discussions with Sally Hemings. That is black relationships in a very personal level.

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