There was a very weird, unplanned moment yesterday in the Israeli election campaign. Both candidates were, I think it’s fair to say, essentially ambushed when the interviewer on Israel’s Meet the Press pushed the two together for a short mini-debate. Both Isaac Herzog and Benjamin Netanyahu were appearing on the show in successive interviews. In the brief moment when Herzog’s interview was ending and Netanyahu’s was about to begin, the host said in so many words, ‘Hey, you’re both here, why not ask each other some questions?’ As best I can tell, neither man had any idea this was in the cards. And it’s possible even the host only had the idea in the moment. In any case, it was a bitter and intense, albeit brief exchange, lasting a couple minutes.
First a little background: for most of the campaign Herzog has been challenging Netanyahu to debate and Netanyahu has consistently refused. This might seem a bit unflattering on the latter’s part. But it’s what any incumbent would do in his position. For most of the campaign it seemed clear that Netanyahu was a solid favorite. And more than that, a big, big part of Netanyahu’s advantage comes from the fact that he simply seems like a Prime Minister and Herzog does not – or didn’t until very recently. All the more reason for Netanyahu not to elevate Herzog by appearing with him as an equal.
As we’ve seen the situation has changed rather dramatically over the last week. And Netanyahu has made a flurry of media appearances over the last handful of days, which is not at all his normal practice.
So that’s the backdrop to this exchange.
There were not dramatic statements. And obviously the exchange is in Hebrew, which I know very few of you speak. But I think it’s worth watching to see the body language, which is telling in a few different ways.
Here’s the video. And below, I excerpt a passage from the write up in Haaretz which gives you the gist of what each guy said. Note Netanyahu zeroing in to attack Herzog on the charged issue of Jerusalem; and Herzog saying that the international community and the Palestinians have both figured out that you, Netanyahu, are weak.
If you do not understand Hebrew it is probably best to read the passage below and then watch the video …
And here’s the key points of what each guy said …
When offered to present Herzog with any question he’d like, Netanyahu asked: “Why did they [Herzog and Tzipi Livni] condemn the construction in Jerusalem? Why don’t they offer support when I am fighting to remove threats like the Iranian nuclear weapons? Why do they refuse to say they stand behind the immense security effort we are undertaking?”
“The security of Israel is more important to us than anything else,” Herzog responded. “We knew how to safeguard it and we will know how to safeguard it. The one who put Jerusalem as the main focus even though no one is talking about its division is Benjamin Netanyahu.”
Herzog then turned to Netanyahu and asked whether he was “willing to accept the principle whereby the leader of the largest party will form the government,” but Netanyahu ignored the question, instead pressing on with the previous point: “Just a few months ago we built in the Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem, and he and Tzipi Livni criticized [it.] If Jews have no right to build in Jerusalem, where do they have a right to do so?”
Herzog and Livni, added Netanyahu, “withdraw immediately and are not willing to step up and take a real stand that would protect our security interests. When the time comes and the prime minister faces a test,” Netanyahu said, he must make a stand about not withdrawing to the 1967 lines.
“The international community knows you’re weak,” answered Herzog, “and do not accept your position. The Palestinians have identified your weakness and so they’re headed toward an international move.”
Netanyahu repeated his claim that there is a “huge international effort with huge amounts of money” – involving “left-wing organizations and elements in the media” – designed to help Herzog and Livni. When the host, Mazliah, told him that “foreign money” has helped him as well over the years, Netanyahu said: “That is not true.”
‘I provided leadership’
The conversation then turned to domestic issues, namely the rising cost of living and the housing crisis. Netanyahu was asked whether he let the citizens down with this unfulfilled promises to tend to those issues.
“People understand that we’ve done great things,” he said. “We’ve provided free education from the age of three; we’ve reduced the cost of electricity; we’ve raised soldiers’ wages and more. All this is shoved aside. We have a primary mission which I don’t deny – reducing the cost of housing, just as we’ve reduced the price of mobile phones.”
Netanyahu added: “I provided leadership – while global economies were collapsing we devoted billions for education for three year olds. That’s a phenomenal sum, in addition to aid for Holocaust survivors. This was all done by the prime minister. I told cabinet ministers to bring to my attention any social issue, anything that would relieve the distress. I told them to present me with reforms. We’ve done a lot and much remains to be done.”
The host reminded the premier that he has “a villa in Caesarea and another house in Jerusalem. You live in the official Prime Minister’s residence and you are funded head to toe by the state. Do you understand how the hardscrabble public finds it difficult to read the Comptroller’s report about wastage of public funds?”
“The same report also speaks of a dramatic reduction in expenses and lessons that were drawn,” Netanyahu answered. “Our record of achievements is so rich.”
So why doesn’t the public support you, the host pressed him. “That’s precisely the point. I am liked, the public prefers me to continue to lead by many percentage points over my rival,” Netanyahu retorted.
When asked about the Likud trailing the Zionist Camp by several seats, Netanyahu cautioned that” there is real concern that if we don’t close the gap in the next few days Herzog and Livni, supported by Arabs and leftist NGOs, will form the next government.”
But Mazliah pressed: “You attack the media with all the means at your disposal. I don’t want to use the term whining. If you really care for the country’s citizens why isn’t there massive support for you, why are you busy attacking the media?”
“First of all this isn’t an assault on democracy,” said Netanyahu. “The media is merciless in its attacks. Its role may be to criticize the government but it does things selectively. I’m telling you that you’re wrong in what you just said. Most of the public wants me to continue. They think they have the privilege of voting for other parties.”
“Will you again create an unstable government,” the host asked, “a bit from here and a bit from there?”
“I don’t think so,” answered the prime minister. “If the public gives Likud more power I can form a stable government with the national camp. I obviously will include all the natural partners. I regret that Moshe Kahlon hasn’t yet declared his support. I’ll give him a senior economic post. We worked together to reduce mobile phone costs, we can do more by working together.”
Finally, Netanyahu was asked if he would retire should the Likud win less than 20 seats. “I’m focused on the Likud winning, on me and my colleagues’ victory,” he said.
Earlier on the show, Herzog said he was convinced he will be elected as Israel’s next prime minister on Tuesday.
“These elections are a choice between despair and hope,” he said. “The Israeli public is sick of [Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu, and knows I am the only one that can take the helm and replace him.”
When asked whether he agrees with Netanyahu on the issue of Iran’s nuclear program, Herzog said the difference “is about the way.” “There are no differences about the strategic threat [from Iran,]” he said. “But when Bibi speaks and speaks, Iran has become a threshold nuclear state.” Herzog added that Netanyahu is “out of the loop” these days in terms of intelligence and decision-making on Iran “because he went head-to-head with the U.S.” If Netanyahu’s Congress speech wasn’t political,” said Herzog, “he would have made it after the elections.”
