McCain-Palin Now It's Hatred and Violence - "Kill him!" Be Afraid.
All right. There IS a limit to how far it's acceptable to go with negative campaigning, and the McNasty and the Pitbull have exceeded the limit now. They need to tone it down before something really bad happens. I'm having a very bad feeling...
Here's why, from the Washington Post:
"Now it turns out, one of his earliest supporters is a man named Bill Ayers," Palin said.
"Boooo!" said the crowd.
"And, according to the New York Times, he was a domestic terrorist
and part of a group that, quote, 'launched a campaign of bombings that
would target the Pentagon and our U.S. Capitol,'" she continued."Boooo!" the crowd repeated.
"Kill him!" proposed one man in the audience.
I'm sorry, but these people have crossed the line and they had better watch what they say and what reactions they solicit in their mindless mob followers.
This post is an instant visceral reaction to what I just read, but this is not politics, this is hate crimes in the making. It must stop, and the media must get on top of this now!
Obama had better get on top of this now. he's getting Swift Boated right before our eyes. There's no need to talk about the allegations. Let's just have him ask McCain directly whether he supports these declarations or not and have him make a public statement about them.
October 7, 2008 1:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Obama had better get on top of this now."
And he will tonight. Now would be a very good time for Obama to show anger, IMO.
If you go back and look at the beginning of Nazi Germany, you find many Germans being afraid when they should have been getting anger.
Let's not make that same mistake. It's time to get angry at the Republican party. What more do they have to do to show that they don't give a crap about our great country?
October 7, 2008 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good analogy to NAZI Germany, wrong candidate. Obama is the one with the singing children, the uniformed youth corps, and the messianic following. It is not 'swift boating' to point out the truth. He is a far left candidate, who has associated for years with people like Ayres, Wright, and Farrakhan. The truth is just starting to come out.
October 7, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Farrakhan? Get the fuck out of here, man. Seriously.
Waiter, check please. This guy is done.
October 7, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, you don't like the truth? Farrakhan was a repeated honored guest at Wright's church. There was a link to his organization on the church web page. Obama participated in his million man march. Has Obama ever disavowed Farrakhan? Has Wright? No.
October 7, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Has McCain denounced the hater Hagee, or Palin denounced the Jews for Jesus hack?
No. But why would you care about that? Those people are white, and you probably hate Jews too.
Guilt by association is McCarthyism. Un-American facist bullshit. Plain and simple.
October 7, 2008 11:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
co-sign
October 7, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with you. When someone from the right says, "now the truth is starting to come out", you know "truth" is the last thing on the menu.
October 7, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Judge a man by the company he keeps. Obama built his political career by associating with Ayres, Wright, Farrakhan, and others of the far left. He is now trying to hide his leftist roots.
October 7, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Character assassination by association is so 2000.
October 7, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is so Republican.
If you can't run on the issues, run on hating the opponent.
October 7, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey cleverbulldog,
What you are saying is really full of shit. On what basis do you assert that Obama has or has had a relationship to a known terrorist ? Is it the fact that Obama was nine years old when Ayers was working with the weather underground ? If guilt by association is your line, then I would ask you if you voted for Bush ? If so, then I would say that just about makes you a first class moron.
October 7, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Earth to Bulldog!! Obama did not and does not have any control over who is a guest in Wright's church. The old fart is retired now, and the new minister is nothing like the old. Furthermore, black churches tend to be way more loud and exuberant than other churches and if some minister wants to go over the top and chew the scenery, so to speak, it's taken with a grain of salt...regarded, I suppose as good entertainment. That would be my take anyway.
Ayers is all mellowed out and old now, just like the rest of us (well, maybe not you) and is hardly a threat to anybody, if he ever was. Notice he's not in prison?
October 7, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nixon was a direct associate of Kissinger -- there is no doubt about that fact.
Nixon and Kissinger put fascist dictator Pinochet in power in Chile. There is no doubt about that fact.
Pinochet murdered at least 30,000. There is no doubt about that fact.
Kissinger dare not go to a number of countries, including Chile, because there are WARRANTS for his arrest for war crimes. There is no doubt about that fact.
That, America-hater, is SUBSTANTIVE fact.
IF Farrakan had ties to Wright, which allegation you DO NOT substantiate, "Wright" continues to be spelled "Wright," not "Obama".
"The KKK is out of style: they don't wear colored sheets!" -- Dick Gregory.
October 7, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama has disavowed both of them, haven't you read the articles concerning this or are you just spouting talking points. Really, are you kidding me. It doesn't matter if Rev. Wright disavows Farrakhan they are both wackos.. Come on, don't be like the rest of the racists in America...
October 7, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still waiting to see some.
Now you're just being silly.
Farrakhan is an associate of an associate of Obama. Big deal. And I could list a million things that you haven't disavowed. Does that mean you should be accused of them?
October 7, 2008 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know clever bulldogs. You are no clever bulldog. You are a racist bullshitter, but still not clever.
1. One more time, ASSHOLE: the Weathermen didn't bomb buildings when there were people in them.
2. One more time, ASSHOLE: there is NO EVIDENCE Ayers did any of THAT.
3. One more time, ASSHOLE: there is NO CONNECTION, of ANY KIND, between Obama and Ayers. NONE. To continue to assert the opposite -- the LIE -- is to be -- as even YOU know -- a LIAR.
LYING is IMMORAL, thug.
October 7, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not a thug, just an asshole. These douchebags get off on being called "thugs", though they lack schoolyard physical courage, all of them...even though, mentally, they're in the schoolyard for life. Never give these Repug assholes the inadvertant compliment of calling them thugs or bullies. That's the shit they get off on.
October 7, 2008 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your facts are wrong.
The weathermen sought not to just end the war in Vietnam but to over through the government and set up a communistic system. They bombed state and federal court houses, police stations, and the home of a NY Supreme Court justice. The fire bombing of Justice Murtagh occurred while he and his family slept in the house. A bombing of one police station used a pipe bomb filled with metal staples. One police man died and another was badly wounded and partially blinded. The bomb that exploded prematurely and killed 3 members of the weatherman was a nail bomb. Nail and staple bombs are not for property damage but human damage. Several weatherman said the target was a military dance where soldiers and their wives or girlfriends would have had nails rip through their bodies. The weatherman also robbed a brinks truck to finance their operation. The guard and 2 police officers were killed in that robbery.
October 7, 2008 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
wow, you are a very scared, misguided person. obama's HARDLY far-left. he's a freak'n democrat! if kucinich won i bet you'd really be shaking in your shoes! don't worry, none of the dems are going to shout "kill him," let alone act on it. they are civilised and compassionate people. we dont' want to "kill" replublicans, we just want them to stop running the war and our economy.
October 7, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, TPM commenters, let's ignore comments from the Bulldog, because there's no point in engaging him in any kind of reasonable discourse.
Just click on his name and take a look at the dreck he's posted. It is largely fact-free, and it reflects a personality that, when faced with critical thinking, bites back rather than listening.
October 7, 2008 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly. The fact that Obama went to a dinner party at Ayers' house proves that Obama is a terrorist sympathizer, just like when JFK had Khrushchev over for dinner. You know why JFK ate dinner with a Communist? Because he was a Communist.
October 7, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
For a bulldog, you are incredibly stupid.
October 7, 2008 6:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yo Bull(sh!t)dog, I don't hear anyone at Obama rallies calling for the death of McCain.
Next please.
October 7, 2008 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, it is NOT a good time for him to show anger -- because that's the LEAST this effort is intended to provoke.
He NEEDS to call out McSlime/Palin for INCITING the hate-speech, and being silent in the face of it -- silence being ASSENT.
What Obama needs to do is stick to his plan: "cage" the BS smears, stick to the issue -- "It's the economy, stupid!" -- and PUSH McSLIME'S BUTTONS SO _HE_ EXPLODES!
October 7, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is the same Obama who has been a complete THUG throughout this whole race, who whipped up his supporters to go out there and "get in people's faces". He has made it scary, and he supports overly aggressive tactics.
Obama is the thug and should apologize and needs to clarify his comments and call off his Maniacs.
October 8, 2008 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Raider,
This actually made me cry. I copied text from article and sent it out via e mail asking all to contact McCain's campaign, RNC and whoever else...
It sickens me. And the secret service just let this guy go free? And Palin just keeps it up without even a pause?!?
I'm beyond outraged. I'm appalled and outraged that the MSM didn't immediately react to this hate mongering.
Thanks for posting, although I so wish it never was or could be or will be again.
Rec'd.
Please, everyone - send e mails, faxes and call McCain's campaign, RNC and MSM now!
October 7, 2008 2:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
THIS NEEDS TO BE ON THE FRONT PAGE OF TPM!
October 7, 2008 2:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Co-sign.
October 7, 2008 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rec'd. I was so stunned that I still do not know how to respond to this. My first thoughts were that the secret service needs a detail on behalf of Obama at all McCain/Palin rallies etc. in order to monitor the people who are showing up and saying such things.
I certianly would never vote for a man who let someone say something like that and not jump all over it and asked for the man to be removed. My sense is that if the situation had been reversed Senator Obama would have jumped on that and rebuked such talk.
I am just sickened by it. It is heart breaking. What an antithesis to hope...
and they try to acuse the Obama campaign of being full of hatred when we all know it is just not true.
I just posted on the 'Without Conscience' Blog by C4Logic about how there is this similarity for me from the Star Wars story when Aniken abandons his greater nature to try to hold on to his 'love'(I equate this with belief). He justifies all injustice and destruction in the name of preserving that love/belief. He wraps reality around his belief rather than have his world implode from losing it.
Somebody in leadership needs to speak out about this... Somebody, maybe everybody, needs to step up in outrage and say this far and no farther...
October 7, 2008 2:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
EVERYONE needs to stand up and say --
"I'm fed up as hell with extremist Republican hate-speech and I'm not going to be silent about it anymore! --
RACIST REPUBLICANS: STFU!"
The mainstream media needs to address it. But most of all, McPalin needs to address it -- or be seen and from now on called out for what they are: anti-American America-hating racist thugs.
October 7, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
The country is sitting on a powder keg of immense proportions.
Unlike 1968 where violence was the rule -- and I'm not just talking Vietnam -- the country, itself, was relatively sound.
Fast forward 40 years:
a) the real class warfare of a $700B bailout to the wealthiest part of our economy sector: financial
b) a deep distrust of the government dating back generations but also reinforced by the present administration
c) puffery and infantile emotionalism passing for a "news program" -- I'm looking at you OReilly
d) people fearing the future
e) sky rocketing energy costs -- they will be back in the headlines by the new year
f) devaluation of the dollar (yet to happen, but this event is waiting in the wings)
Should someone be suddenly taken from the scene, he would be viewed in terms of Abraham Lincoln, not JFK.
And woe be unto all of us. People like McCain and Palin may well find out that the mobs in France turned on the original agitators eventually -- and violently.
The country is primed and the GOP keeps striking matches...
October 7, 2008 3:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I heard some pundit comment today that Bush was chomping at the bit to declare Marshall Law???
October 7, 2008 3:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
The rumor is that Bushit threatened martial law if the bailout wasn't passed. IF that were true, Barney Frank would have blown the lid on it.
Why does the far-left insist on generating paranoid anti-gum'mint conspirabunkerings when that is properly the role of the far-right?
Such conspirabunkerings are not only extremist, they are corrosive of societies, DESTRUCTIVE.
October 7, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rep. Brad Sherman said so on the House floor. Maybe he's bullshitting, but this isn't a conspiracy theory. It was likely just bullying on the part of the Bush administration.
October 8, 2008 1:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
RFK. MLK. That's all I've been thinking since I read that article yesterday. Is McCain willing to go that far to get elected?
Sadly, the answer might be yes. He won't pull the trigger himself, but his campaign is appealing to the lowest and sickest and most hateful part of our society. He's fueling the hatred.
Did anyone see Jon Stewart Monday night when they interviewed people in Wasilla? It was scary.
October 7, 2008 7:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
None of which particularly surprises: nutball G. Gordon Liddy is a friend of his. And it was Liddy who stirred up the hatred of the Clintons to the degree -- and estremisty -- that a listener shot up the White House.
Such individuals are not American, especially when they spout the contrary view: that the US is about truth, justice, freedom, and therefore fairness.
October 7, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's happening here? Isn't provoking hatred and violence a crime? Shouldn't people who do that be charged? Normally you can sue someone even for badmouthing, but it seems that in a presidential campaign everything is allowed. Do they realize that this can literally cause Obama to get killed, because of lies and fear-mongering? What's next, assassinations of presidential candidates become fair game? Are they already? I'm pretty sure the McCain camp wouldn't mind if Obama gor killed. ...
I REALLY REALLY hope the media will put them to shame, because apparently nothing else will stop them (except being thrown in jail, but that's unlikely to happen). Please write to the media and urge them to do something.
October 7, 2008 7:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
That speech and the speech by McCain are frightening to hear. The audience is feral. Like a bunch of hyenas on the hunt. The McCain campaign isn't just playing to the lowest common denominator--they're playing to a different species.
October 7, 2008 8:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
They are playing to people who are just like 'them', McCain/Palin and the Bush Base are a sick bunch, twisted people who cannot face the reality or admit any responsibility for how the Bush administration has damaged America. They don't know or care about what America used to stand for at home or in the world, and they will never advance this country forward.
October 7, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Feral" is the word. As is "decerebrated".
October 7, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Feral may be the word, but I just realized that "pack" is probably preferred over "bunch". *:o)
October 7, 2008 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chill out. "Kill him" probably referred to the terrorist, not Obama. There's no evidence that Palin nor McCain heard them or they would have discouraged it.
But that doesn't change the fact that the NY Times and the Lib. media, especially CNN have been trying for some time now to get Obama, the most dangerous man to run for the highest office of the US of A, elected. Now the Times of UK have also joined in.
Obama's past associations are a reflection of his future and God forbid that this man should take office.
If nothing else, he is the US version of Neville Chamberlain and we know what a mess this gross appeaser and weakest of British PM's left behind for Churchill, FDR and later,Truman to sort out!
Finally, Obama enjoys the backing of 93% of blacks, which is a level of support even Sadam Hussein would have been impressed with. The trouble is this makes it the most racial of all elections in US history. Come Nov.4th, the backlash in the ballot boxes would shock even the most rabid of right-wing pollsters!
October 7, 2008 9:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
You apparently don't know what the word "fact" means. But you do know what an unfounded smear is.
Thankfully Obama is cruising toward victory Nov. 4. We'll see what racist, terrorist pigs like you and your ilk have the guts to try, now that there's a Homeland
October 7, 2008 9:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Security apparatus to keep tabs on you.
October 7, 2008 9:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Welcome to the party. Now hang out a bit and learn something.
Check the front page of TPM right now. If you think McCain didn't hear that fool yell "terrorist", you're dreaming. He clearly heard it, and his face showed it. That you condone such a thing tells us all we need to know about the kind of America you believe in. In your America, people who look different, act different, sound different are supposed stay in their place, right? Your America is dead, Sir. And good riddance to it.
October 7, 2008 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, well then it's OK, right? I mean, who cares if someone walks into Bill Ayers' office and blows HIS brains out? Even though he was never convicted of any crime, he deserves to die, right? I mean, how many times a day do you find yourself saying, "Kill him!" about someone you've never met? Prolly all the time, right? Because you're a good Republican, right? Full to the brim with hatred and venom and shit.
October 7, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chill out. "Kill him" probably referred to the terrorist, not Obama. There's no evidence that Palin nor McCain heard them or they would have discouraged it.
________________
There's NO EVIDENCE that they would have DISCOURAGED it -- but there IS evidence that they must have, by now, in at least ONE instance, HEARD the responses their hate-speech is getting.
Stop being an apologist for racist hatred and America-hating thugs. Stop being an ass.
October 7, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the McCain-Palin loonfest will stop at nothing. What they are implying is that he is violating the Patriot Act and getting away with it. I fear that could case the wingnuts in the base to think they should take enforcement matters in their own hands.
October 7, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
So one or both of the parties are going very negative and the faithful are a bit out of control, well what do you expect, Reason!
Tonight debate will be followed by the same taking heads parsing each taking point trying to find some meat where there isn't even bone to support it. In order to get the process corrected we need to demand and expect more from our candidates. In order to improve the field we need to challenge our future leaders with real time and substantive questions not political taking points emailed in by viewers or from the media who are concerned about ratings. Our irrational attacks on the elite or educated class is counterproductive. Not rewarding study with acknowledgment is a mistake and by stopping the Joe six pack references is not an insult to the working class.
October 7, 2008 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, the comment was outrageous and unacceptable in our 21st century; however, let's keep our jets cool.
The Republicans would like nothing better than to change the subject away from the economy.
Let's keep cool, direct our energies intelligently and there'll be a landslide in less than a month.
When met with such barbarity, repeat the mantra:
"It's the economy, stupid!"
"It's the economy, stupid!"
"It's the economy, stupid!"
"It's the economy, stupid!"
"It's the economy, stupid!"
October 7, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
And how would electing someone who wants to raise taxes at all levels, increase cap gains and dividend taxes, increase business taxes, how is that going to help the economy? You people are so clueless. Look, it's actually pretty simple. If you raise taxes on business, they have less money. Less money to expand, to hire more people, or to raise salaries. They have less return on investment, and less dividends for shareholders, so the stock value is lower. This means all the 401k's are worth less. Or, the company can move to Ireland, with an 11% tax rate (vs our 35%), expand, hire lots of Irish workers, and prosper. That's what is happening, that's why jobs are leaving. Idiots like Obama would accelerate the process.
October 7, 2008 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
God. I finally see the light, bulldog. That's what has been working so well since Reagan. How could I have missed that logic, when it's so uttterly obvious.
Oh, because maybe it doesn't work. Why are jobs leaving? Because of greed, pure and simple, and they are leaving under BUSH, not OBAMA. Until American workers can afford to work for pennies an hour, jobs will be outsourced. If what you're saying really made sense, then McCain would be saying what you're saying and not inciting people into a state of hatred and division and fear. He'd clearly show the world why his economic philosophy (or Gramm's) is the one that will help the American people, and not Obama's. There's a reason he's not doing that.
You people don't get it. It really does start from the bottom up. It really doesn't trickle down.
More to the point, this post is about the growing environment of hate, which I hope you don't condone, even if you do disagree on policy. I hope you at least would stick to the issues and make these comments elsewhere. In fact, why don't you post your own thread about the economy and explain to everyone why your economic philosophy is the right one, and how well it has worked - with examples? I'll read it. I promise.
October 7, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, I was replying to someone who said it's all about the economy, that the economy was the reason to elect Obama. As far as violence, I regret it has come to this in America. People now fear putting on bumper stickers or signs in their yard. It's not primarily from the right, most of the sign defacing and car vandalism is from leftist Obama supporters. It really started in the last election, google for political sign vandalism, and you will see numerous stories, mostly about Bush's signs. Where I live both parties had to issue a joint reward for info on people defacing signs. This violence and intimidation needs to stop, on both sides, before it is too late.
October 7, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
The sign (and other) vandals may be from the Dem side where you live, but I can tell you that they are 100% on the Repub side where I live.
If I knew anyone doing that to McCain signs, I'd tell them to stop and keep putting up Obama signs instead.
But the violence, hatred and divisions of this country represent a tragic return to the bitterness of the Civil War, which has never completely left us. Now we have bigotry of economics and policy (liberals and conservatives) to go along with racism and misogyny.
We need to heal this nation, but instead, McCain and Palin are stirring up the anger and the hatred. We may differ on policies and economics, but we cannot condone this kind of behavior.
The argument about Ayers is entirely spurious. The man did bad things, yes. He committed crimes. So did Nixon and so has Bush. So have many people. But Ayers has not done anything illegal that I know of in all these years, while holding down a respectable position as a professor in a respected university. His CAC, which Obama was involved in, was part of the Annenberg Challenge, and the Annenberg Foundation is not a radical or terrorist institution.
When Ayers was acting like a terrorist, Obama was a child. Today, he's a man like any other, and you wouldn't know he was once a criminal just to look at him. And there's no evidence that being off and on in proximity to him has made Obama a terrorist, which is what McCain/Palin are implying, and it doesn't take much to incite the idiots who can't think this through.
And, bulldog, for your terrible accusations that Obama is a "leftist," I personally don't think that's a bad thing at all. So-called leftists stand for very good principles and always have. There are so many things that you probably accept today as conventional wisdom that were opposed by the right wing and were championed by the "leftists." But today, the left demonizes the right and vice versa, and we are at each others' throats, instead of listening, discussing, and finding ways to make a healthy economy, provide basic, fundamental lives to all our citizens, stay out of war and promote peace, and learn to live with our planet instead of destroying its environments at every turn.
And while we're at it, what about learning generosity and turning our backs on runaway greed? Really, bulldog, who needs $100 million a year in salary? How many toaster ovens do you need for your dozen or so houses? How much is enough?
The system is out of control. It doesn't work. We don't practice capitalism here, we practice something that Adam Smith never envisioned. It's a broken system, and only getting the asylum is now controlled by the inmates.
It's definitely time for change. Perhaps a bigger one than Obama will bring, but certainly he is a better step in that direction than McCain and Palin, who will be worse than Bush and leave what's left of this country in utter shambles. If the past eight years haven't taught you anything, then I'm wasting my breath, but at least I'm using it to stand for what I believe in.
It's time for a change.
October 7, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't pull the false equivalency crap, bullshit. Republicans have created the climate: Everyone who disagrees is unpatriotic.
Regarding the economy, apparently you didn't see the following endorsement:
http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2008/10/06/hugh_mccoll_obama/index.html
Yeah, that wacky ol' terrorist fist-bumping Hugh McColl, he of Bank of America, the damn commie.
What I love about you is that all the evidence against your worldview should cause you to implode. And yet you just keep your fingers in your ears, a jaunty "I can't hear you!" on your lips...
It really is remarkable.
October 7, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jobs are leaving for India and China, smart guy, not Ireland. Ireland has 6 million people. China has 1 billion. Which do you think would have been a better choice for your argument?
October 7, 2008 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, depends on the type of job. Many high tech jobs are going to Ireland. Manufacturing jobs are going to China, call centers are mostly in India. A lot of engineering is also going to India. All these countries enjoy competitive advantages: lower labor cost, lower taxes, less regulation. We have a productivity advantage. We can lessen regulation and lower taxes to retake the advantage, or follow the Obama plan of higher taxes and tarriffs and sink into depression.
October 7, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
bulldog:
Bush already did the above, the results are now coming home to Americans.
October 7, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do not be afraid. Ever.
October 7, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Be afraid? Hell no. Get angry? Nope. These are desperate deadenders who are failing.
Keep your wits about you. Maintain your composure and keep up the good work of getting our people elected. If that makes them angrier and fouler persistently ask them for their names and addresses. Cowards like to act anonymously. Don't let them. Take names, put them on notice, they don't get to hide their identity like they're wearing a hood. Demand to know who they are and they'll STFU.
October 7, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
So, you want to intimidate people who disagree with you by asking for their names and addresses? Isn't that an implied threat? Nice to see how Obama supporters really feel about opposing views. This is the same silence the opposition tactic they have launched against the media, various radio programs and newspapers. They even threaten to use law enforcement personnel in Missouri to silence Obama critics. When will you Obama people start wearing your uniforms? I'd suggest brown shirts with that catchy Obama logo on the shoulder.
October 7, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Cleaverbulldog -- your suggestion that lower taxes leads to more jobs ignores the fact that the best job growth over the past 20 years happened under the Clinton administration when taxes were higher. The Bush tax cuts have been around for 7 years now. How much good have they done? Middle-class tax cuts, which put more money in the economy do create new jobs because they create more demand for goods and services.
In contrast, there is no guarantee that the lower taxes producing more profits would be plowed back into the business and create more jobs, rather than just kept by the business owners for themselves -- look at the billions of bonuses on Wall Street for example.
October 7, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some businesses might not re-invest the money in expanding the business. They would either pay it to shareholders, or pay it to employees, or bank it. If they bank it, banks have more capital to lend, so interest rates will be lower and people will be able to borrow. This helps the economy. If they pay it in salaries, those people will pay more taxes and spend the money in the economy. If they pay it in dividends, same thing. So where is the downside? Tax cuts on 'the middle class' are not that effective because they pay so little in taxes anyway. The bottom 40% of incomes pay no tax in this country. Cutting business taxes would be more effective at improving the balance sheets of businesses and increasing jobs here.
October 7, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Four more years. Four more years. Four more years.
October 7, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
No cb I'm saying bullies think they can away with threats, slurs and worse if they are anonymous. I say challenge those threats, slurs and calls for murder by demanding their names. If that makes you feel intimidated then I suggest you keep a civil tongue in your mouth. Got a problem with that?
October 7, 2008 11:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
This ugly stuff has been seething just below the surface, and responsible political leaders do not encourage it.
But McCain is laughing about it at rallies. And Palin is making an overt appeal to the sense of grievance and covert racial animus.
Be it on your head, John McCain, if something like the following ever happens here. Your name will forever be shameful:
Man shot on street in Britain for wearing Obama T-shirt
October 7, 2008 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
If the McCain campaign continues to ratchet up the hatred by encouraging these pigs, they will pay a heavy price. Most Americans understand that this is a political contest. Palin and McCain are clearly trying to turn it into a race war. If they win, America loses.
October 7, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
NO. Don't be afraid. Obama knew coming in that he would be the target of threats and slime.
Let's take our cue from our party's candidate. Stay calm and on message. Point out the opponent's complete lack of an economic plan. Link the opponent to the previous financial crisis.
The true undecideds and independents aren't going to be swayed by attacks as long as Obama continues to have a conversation with them, on the issues they care about.
It's the economy, stupid.
October 7, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am reminded of the situation in Israel before the assassinatin of Prime Minister Rabin. There were right-wing rallies and signs calling him a traitor as well, and the language was vicious -- leading to one deranged man thinking he was going to save Israel by killing the Prime Minister. That is the risk here as well. Afterwards, there were expressions of regret that the political langauge got so far out-of-hand, That is why McCain has to say something TONITE to stop the vicious cycle before it spins out of control.
October 7, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've been thinking about the same thing. It seems as if that is their new hail mary strategy, except it is a Hail Yigal Amir solution. They seem to be willing to lose the mainstream in order to radicalize their base. Why? And here's the sad thing about the assassination of Rabin -- the goal was halt progress toward peace, and by that measure it succeeded.
October 7, 2008 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, been on my mind too. I just posted a comment about it on another of the "WTF are they doing" posts on the rec'd list now.
October 7, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, it's just like the USAG. I thought they couldn't do worse than Ashcroft, then they found Gonzales.
Bush is looking better than McCain-Palin. He's been a disaster, but I've never seen him whip up a crowd in hate for fellow Americans.
October 7, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is all the fault of Obama supporters for believing in their candidate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Leave McCain and Palin alone, they are the real victims here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do you expect running an African-American for President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obama's tax cuts for 90% of Americans will hurt us and you are blind if you don't see that!!
You Obama supporters are like Hitler-youth!!!!
October 7, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I live in Jacksonville where these comments were made. I copied the just posted story from the local paper's website. No mention of any whackos chanting such things, but I would not be surprised.
Palin’s visit: The Tale of Two Crowds
Posted by Joe Allen-Black
Tuesday, October 7th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin’s visit to Jacksonville could be described as a tale of two crowds.
One rowdy, chanting slogans and waving signs; the other was more subdued, a sea of sport coats and fancy dresses. This is the crowd that donated at least $500 to see Palin speak at Jacksonville Municipal Stadium’s West Touchdown Club. Councilmen Kevin Hyde and Bill Bishop were within the crowd along with prominent business leaders. Mayor John Peyton, a Republican, is in Europe networking with Jacksonville Port Authority vendors and could not attend.
Palin spoke at the stadium for about 20 minutes before her motorcade loaded up to escort her to Jacksonville International Airport. Her speech was much the same as the public one she delivered earlier today at The Jacksonville Landing.
Media access to the private event was limited to several writers who’d been security-cleared.
She attacked Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, saying he’d raise taxes. She said Republican presidential nominee John McCain would be a superior choice to save health care and assist veterans, a key point in a town where military installations provide an $8 billion annual economic impact.
Florida Democrats were quick to counter any steam Palin generated during her morning in Jacksonville. They said a look at the latest registration numbers showed the Democrats had gained 20,000 voters more than the Florida GOP in September alone.
Florida, with 27 electoral votes, has become a must-win state for the Republicans, analysts say.
October 7, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
FL has had a pretty dramatic shift in the last few days according to the polls I've seen.
My guess is even the most conservative elderly Jews, the Cuban-Americans, the Mexican-Americans, the blacks, all know who gets targetted when a crowd get ugly.
October 7, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here the chart showing the shift in the polls in FL, it's pretty dramatic.
http://www.pollster.com/polls/fl/08-fl-pres-ge-mvo.php
October 7, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama, Biden and Democracy loving media need to forcefully slap McCain and Palin upside the head... their talk is getting very jingoist and they are creating conditions for fascism. The next step is blaming the Jews for the financial crisis. This is the time for everyone to be brave and stand up to this crap, because the parallels to Nazi Germany are there.
October 7, 2008 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama, Biden and Democracy loving media need to forcefully slap McCain and Palin upside the head... their talk is getting very jingoist and they are creating conditions for fascism.
Considering Fascism was a leftist workers movement, I fail to necessarily see the parralels. But thats neither here nor there.
Everyone of you people are part of the problem. Both the major parties are part of the problem. Stop being part of the problem.
As for the cry 'Kill him', sorry, but could you please point to me where in the 1st Amendment there are caveats? I fail to remember where it says 'Freedom of speech, except for....'. Unless and until someone actually tries to carry out said 'Kill him', its a thought crime and nothing more. Don't for one moment think that Barack Obama wouldn't sic the government's jackbooted thugs on someone for a thought crime....the same as McCain would do. Both major parties are riddled with Statist crazies that got us into this predicament in the first place.
As for the current financial problem, that is laid squarely at the feet of McCain, Obama, Biden and damn near every other President and Congressional member since Jimmy Carter, including George W. Bush for not doign anything to stop the coming crash. Not that it matters, since that crook Nixon simply completed the plans of the slime FDR and Woodrow Wilson by making us completely dependent upon fiat money courtesy of the unconstitutional Federal Reserve system.
I'm sure both sides will take the opportunity to take potshots at me and claim I'm one of the tin-foil hat crowd. Go ahead and try your pathetic internet troll tricks, ad-hominem and strawman away since that will probably be the only thing you can actually do.
You are all part of the Mobocracy that Thomas Jefferson warned about. You and your candidates will simply continue us down the path of dissolution. Between both supporting the fraudulent Anthropogenic Global Warming crap shoveled by crooks like James Hansen to giving the Treasury and IRS damn-near dictatorial powers, I don't see much hope. Pat yourselves on the back and be content all the while proclaiming to believe in Liberty and a Free Market Economy. A pox on both your houses!
October 7, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Barr welcomes your vote.
October 7, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good rant, but what would you do, then? Have a do-over? We've got what we've got, we don't need more violence and hatred, but we DO need solutions. Got any?
October 7, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love that Rightwing lie that fascism was a "leftist worker's movement" - that's completely false.
October 7, 2008 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fascism occupies the opposite end of the political and governing and economic spectrum from communism, which was a leftist worker's movement.
Ya idiot. You wingers insist on reading everything backwards - that's the only way your worldview works.
October 7, 2008 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
October 8, 2008 1:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Christ. I hate these swine. I really do.
But I don't want to see another goddamn Democrat use the word "afraid" in relation to this shit. No crying about "hate crimes."
Keep hitting the main themes of Obama's campaign instead of falling for the politics of distraction and crying about some racist thugs.
Jesus -- GROW A PAIR. We're not going to win this by crying about how we all need to be afraid.
October 7, 2008 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
All Americans, including Moderate Republicans who have become disillusioned with McCain and Palin, need to to denounce McCain and Palin for encouraging and accepting the hateful and racist behavior of some of their supporters. Using the "n" word, calling Obama a terrorist, this kind of speech only incites more hatred. It needs to be strongly discouraged from every direction before it turns a campaign rally into a raging mob. Hate speech is not acceptable. Hate speech interferes with the kind of discussion that makes democracy possible, and it sometimes incites people to commit terrible acts.
October 7, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree this is way beyond the bounds of acceptable.
It's outrageous.
October 7, 2008 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hate these damn swine too, Bat. Bitterly. They see everything backwards and inside out and that view of everything is making me sick, as is their devotion to everything that is the absolute worst about Americans.
The conservatives bring out the worst in this country and they do it on purpose = they pander to what's worst in us.
It's sickening. Obama is trying his best to bring us together. The right is so damn hateful and divisive it's really hard -
October 7, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Houston, we have a problem.
This blog was intended to point out the rabid and dangerous partisanship that is being fired off by intentionally by McCain and Palin, but as I read through the comments here, I am disturbed by the invective and hatred being spouted by both sides - Dem and Repub, liberal and conservative.
Can we stop it? Yes, we disagree. And I also get quite angry when people lie, which some of those who comment are doing. Some people, however, may legitimately believe that something is fact when it isn't, and a lot of what's being asserted here is also nonfactual, but opinion.
The big problem is ...us. What are we doing? Fighting like angry wolves over a sliver of meat? Are we, the Dems, any better than those we attack for bias, dishonesty and low tactics when we stand around (figuratively, anyway) and say how we hate them?
Folks, hate is not the answer. It's never the answer. We can agree that some things people say are angering and unfair, incorrect and intentionally disruptive or insulting, but we must remember that we are all people and, as cliche as it sounds, love is far more powerful than hate, and the truth is the best disinfectant.
So, please, calm down. I don't want a post I put up here to end up in all this free-flung invective. I appreciate different points of view, and yet I'm also guilty of sarcasm at times, and outrage, to be sure. And I will sometimes go after something somebody says or does - their behavior - but not their person.
So, please don't become rabid, hate-filled partisans here, but decry the wrongdoing that was the original theme of this post, demand better behavior of our politicians, and try to find common ground, or at least civil disagreement. Please.
October 7, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
if he ever was. Notice he's not in prison?
---------------------------------------------------
Ayers has admitted he set bombs and that he was the bomb designer of the group. People died in some of those bombings. Harvey Klehr, the Andrew W. Mellon professor of politics and history at Emory University in Atlanta, said in 2003, "The only reason they were not guilty of mass murder is mere incompetence. I don't know what sort of defense that is."
Ayers is not in prison because the case was thrown out due to illegal wire taps used by the FBI in their attempt to find him while he was on the run. Here's how Ayers summed it up, "Guilty as hell, free as a bird, America is a great country."
October 7, 2008 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
The missing part of this piece of factual information is that since then he has, in fact, not been a terrorist, but a professor. The legal system may have failed, but in the end he didn't go out and kill and maim and attack the government, so let's at least acknowledge that the Ayers that Obama met, years later, was someone quite different from the fire-breathing radical he once was. And, I've said this before, there's no evidence that Obama caught any diseases from being in proximity with the guy or working on his education reform.
So facts are good, but they can be misleading when the real point is not what Ayers did in the past, but who Obama is and what, if anything, was the real content or result of their association, however casual it was.
In contrast, McCain's association with Keating is very well documented, and it is, moreover, relevant to McCain's economic beliefs, which apparently haven't changed despite being front and center on the previously biggest meltdown of S&Ls. That's why it's not a smear. It's a reminder of who this guy is and what he did, and how he failed to learn from it. I think if our economy hadn't tanked, Keating would not have been relevant and might have been seen as a smear - perhaps. The argument would have been stronger then, anyway.
October 7, 2008 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, the University of Illinois at Chicago has been employing him, and he is a Distinguished Professor there. So how many people do you know associated with the University of Illinois? Better get them all on the terror watch list.
October 7, 2008 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Its an interesting dichotomy in America where the right has rehabilitated the reputation of Oliver North, G. Gordon Liddy and others but rejects the notion of rehabilitating the reputations of Ayers, Rosenberg, and other practitioners of left based violent struggle during the 60's to 80's. The left generally has the converse view point rejecting the notion of rehabilitating the reputation of North and Liddy but accepting that of Ayers and Rosenberg. I don't think any of them deserve their reputations to be rehabilitated.
The liberal educated elite has long had its fascination with violent revolution of the left. Well I never have. Obama's relationship with Ayers matters to me. Its not the most important issue, it doesn't define Obama but its not meaningless.
If some abortion clinic bomber got off on a technicality even though he admitted multiple times he was involved in at least 25 bombings some of which killed people. "Guilty as hell, free as a bird, America is a great country." And in the following years never regretted or rejected his violent acts. If this abortion clinic bomber said as little as 5 years ago, "I don't regret setting bombs, I feel we didn't do enough." If someone launched their political career from that abortion bomber's home it would matter to me. Even if that abortion clinic bomber was now an English Professor. Would it matter to you?
Unlike many on the left, I don't see a significant difference between left wing terrorists and right wing terrorists.
October 7, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
For the record, I think people like North and Liddy can live redeemed lives - maybe even Rove and Cheney, though I am not feeling very charitable toward them, or toward Bush.
But it takes time, and it takes some measure of change. It's true that Ayers hasn't publicly repudiated his actions, to my knowledge, and I'll give you that. But it still doesn't go to show that every moment of every day he is a walking, talking terrorist, or that whatever association he had with Obama made Obama a terrorist, too. Or that everything he does or gets involved in is wrong, bad or evil. That's taking it way too far.
And, of course, when we play the association game, neither McCain nor Palin gets a free pass, as you well know. So, in the worst case scenario, it's a wash, but in my mind it's tilted against McCain and Palin because their associations have been deeper and more involved with criminals, nut cases and hate mongers in the height of their activities.
Obama has known and dealt with a few characters who can be considered controversial or unsavory, but Palin has been complicit in the secessionist movement that has advocated the overthrow of the United States in which her husband has been a card carrying member. She is a long-time and active member of a church that has essentially practiced witchcraft and proclaimed god's vengeance against the Jews. She is fighting tooth and nail against the Troopergate investigation, is being investigated for improper tax reporting, and has a lot of negatives that are routinely being ignored because she is, after all, a pitbull with lipstick.
McCain has embraced Hagee and vacationed with Keating, been intimately involved with the gambling industry, apparently sat on the board of a very dubious organization (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/06/why-mccains-time-with-cou_n_132470.html), and more.
Nobody is truly without sin, here. There are no saints, but the transgressions that people want to perceive on Obama's part, for me, pale in comparison with those of his opponents and he has not once been proved to have been directly associated with anything illegal, whackadoodle crazy or anti-American. Not once.
October 7, 2008 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Raider, I'm not a republican tool like bulldog. If you'd prefer to dialog with him go ahead but don't expect me to defend his views. I never said anything remotely like, "whatever association he had with Obama made Obama a terrorist, too." In fact my point was entirely different, "Obama's relationship with Ayers matters to me. Its not the most important issue, it doesn't define Obama but its not meaningless." I really have no comment since you haven't addressed me instead tagging me with the idiotic views of bulldog.
I noticed you didn't address my hypothetical about the abortion clinic bomber. I suspect because it would matter to you and you then would have trouble coming up with a rational explanation as to why Ayers should not matter.
You then flood me with a litany of what you see as sins of the McCain Palin ticket. No depth, no specifics, just a list. Some I think are gross distortions. Some I'd guess we'd agree on. Its hard to say since each item on the list requires the equivalent of the discussion we're having on Ayers. I suspect that flood is to divert attention from the Ayers discussion because you are beginning to see why someone rational might consider the Ayers connection as one of the issues worth considering when looking at your candidate.
Its hard to have a serious dialog when spinning for your candidate is more important to you then having a serious dialog. I believe we have now reached that point. I can't write several multi paragraph posts to address each of the several issues on your list. I'm sure all those issues on your list will come up one by one on some thread and maybe we can discuss one or a few of them at the times they do.
October 8, 2008 4:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wish I could go to sleep and wake up on November 5th, but I have to volunteer for our campaign. We need to win...
Please all you people who are Obama supporters, go out and canvass for the campaign. It's our campaign and we need to be a part of it. We are just lucky Obama is our leader...
The world will look at us differently on November 5th if we elect Obama/Biden...
You can do phone banking from home...Please volunteer. Do it for Colorado, it's extremely close.
October 7, 2008 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
And as a segue into canvassing and campaigning, Huffington Post has picked up my blog from yesterday, publishing it in my real name, so that cat's out of the bag. But it's at:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rusel-demaria/swaying-undecideds-door-t_b_132421.html
October 7, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Ayers was convited of WHAT CRIME? Oh. None. You would never know it!
Lets talk about associations:
The Bushes are friends of the binLadin family and let them fly out of the US when no citizen was allowed to fly after 911.
Goerge HW Bush was a great pal of Saddam Houssain and gave him weapons of mass destruction.
Ronald Reagan -- well, the list is too long.
John McCain: E Gordon Liddy (an American terrorist). Charles Keating (an American traitor). OK, the debate is starting. Back later
October 7, 2008 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love that Rightwing lie that fascism was a "leftist worker's movement" - that's completely false.
Fascism occupies the opposite end of the political and governing and economic spectrum from communism, which was a leftist worker's movement.
Ya idiot. You wingers insist on reading everything backwards - that's the only way your worldview works.
You are without a doubt a complete moron. Fascism, as expressed by Mussolini, had its roots in European Socialism. It was not, btw, a Capitalist-based movement as Mussolini and the others expressed 'the third way between Capitalism and Socialism: Corporatism'.
Fascism (more specifically Nazism), as expressed by Adolf Hitler, also had its roots in European Socialism. In fact, you twit, maybe you should pay attention to the NAME for the Nazi Party or NSDP - Nationalsozialismus Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers Party).
Are there 'right-wing' Statists, yes (or what most people in the US think of as 'right-wing', which is actually occupied by Anarchism and not modern Republicans). They are NOT necessarily the same thing as Fascists nor are the Nazi's. Its an old canard from Stalinist Russia to call anyone with whom you disagree a Fascist, or more commonly a Nazi.
October 8, 2008 12:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
ya'l are all Bser's OBAMA IS A TERROR SYMPATHIZER!! when i heard he had Irish in him..i suspected he had some Irish since most
October 8, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
but he is not my cup of tea! he was in his 20s when the infamous Brinks Robberies occurred and yes another one of his terror pals, Black Panther, Donald Weems "aka" Kuwasi Balagoon and Kathy Boudin were convicted in the slaying of my cousin and the permanent disabling of his coworker, all Brinks guards! so he is not the type of guy we need. all public officials are vetted why not he? coz hes black and white america is afraid blacks will riot like they did in la? or nearly after the oj trial. oj was proven guilty but in 1994 america was afraid of another LA Part Z Deux!
October 8, 2008 1:04 AM | Reply | Permalink