Please, Help me Understand
Not being a politician or particularly abreast of the, apparently, wide selection of parliamentary maneuvers available to congress to stifle legislation; I would really appreciate it if someone could educate me on why the democratic majority in congress can not use any of those tactics to stop passage of the FISA bill. You know, the one that includes blanket and unquestioned immunity to the telecoms for illegally helping BushCo spy on Americans for....well...We don't know how long, do we? We have watched the republican minority stand in the way of bill after bill after bill. And all they had to do was pull some parliamentary rabbit trick out of their little bag of tricks. Stopped the democratic majority dead in their tracks, time after time. Even with the backing of the majority of Americans. Even with common sense and logic on their side. Even with "rightness" on their side. They have caved again and again with nothing more than the "threat" of a filibuster or some obscure rule the republicans dug up from ages past. Now that we are about to be forced to accept yet another piece of legislation that rips even more of our privacy and civil liberties from us, and additionally, makes legal the spying and eavesdropping we have had performed on us for, well, a long time, the democratic majority rolls over like cat-beaten hound dogs and not only does not fight for rejection, but has capitulated and given their collective blessing for it's passage. Never mind the whole thing stinks of cowardice and lack of any rationale. Senator after Senator has vowed this bill would not gain passage with the immunity provision intact. Yet there it is. Are we Americans left with no alternative from our elected leaders but to continually have our liberties and freedoms systematically stolen and shredded like yesterdays garbage? Have we no able and principled congresspersons willing to stand up to this evil juggernaut that holds our laws hostage only to kill them off after promises have been made? What is right anymore? What can we believe in? Apparently not the rule of law, anymore than we can trust our elected representatives to protect us from tyranny from the worst president and administration in our history. I find it utterly shameful. And frankly, I do not have an explanation. Can someone help me to understand?
The House voted on the FISA bill on Friday, and it passed, with an awful lot of Democrats voting "yay" on it. Here's the full roll call.
The bill now moves onto the Senate, once there it can be stopped in a number of ways:
1.) A majority of Senators can vote against it (preferable outcome).
2.) Reid (Senate majority leader) can declare deadlock and table the bill in favor of more pressing matters (good outcome).
3.) Any number of Senators can filibuster. Look to Dodd, Feingold or Biden for likely filibuster candidates (last-ditch effort).
I don't know how we got here, where a majority of Representatives think that it's okay to exchange a basic legal right (the right to take someone to court) for token oversight.
June 22, 2008 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
The fact is that a number of Democrats support the bill, for whatever reason. Maybe some, especially in swing districts, fear being labeled as "soft on terrorism" when running for reelection. Some think the modifications of the bill are good, and that it passes constitutional scrutiny. Some argue that while it makes wiretapping easier to authorize, it also more clearly prevents the executive from trying to wiretap without authorization.
Because the Democrats are the majority in both houses, they control the agenda, So if they wanted to stop this bill, they certainly could. But enough members don't want to stop it, and actually approve of it, so here we are...
June 22, 2008 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with you Fosberry. I don't think this is all that hard to understand: The politicians who support this believe that their constituents want this spy legislation, and don't give a shit about Telecom suits. I think they're right. I come into contact with regular folk all the time when they are called for jury duty, and you would die of shock at their complacency toward the Fourth Amendment. They just don't believe they will ever need it because they aren't planning on committing a crime. They believe only guilty people need the Fourth Amendment.
I am a die-hard liberal, so these attitudes make me sick. But that is not the question here. The question is why do they (Dems) go along with this, and I think that's why. Greenwald over at Salon argues that the majority of the electorate opposes expanding the President's authority to spy beyond what was already allowed in FISA. I think Greenwald ought to leave his desk once in a while and meet some regular Americans. Perhaps sit in on a criminal court docket or trial. But then again, he might die of shock when he sees that his bloviations about the demise of the Fourth Amendment are ludicrous because we haven't had a functioning Fourth Amendment in decades.
Having our phone taps is, I believe, no more a threat to our liberty than having our cars stopped and detained, without probable cause or even reasonable suspicion, at automobile checkpoints (legal under the 4th A), or having cops scan your house from the outside using thermal imaging without a warrant, probable cause, or reasonable suspicion (also legal), or having cops pull your power records (legal), or having a drug sniff dog sniff the outside of your car or your locker without any probable cause or reasonable suspicion (also legal), or having cops seek entry into your house to conduct a knock and talk knowing full well they intend to coerce you into allowing a search but not being required to tell you that you have the right to refuse...I could go on and on. We have a lot less in the way of rights than most people think we do. I wish people like Greenwald would spend as much time exposing what goes on in our courts EVERY DAY as he spends excoriating Obama over this FISA bill.
My $.02.
June 23, 2008 5:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Love this comment.
I am glad that so many more progressives are pragmatic these days. When the entire system is corrupt and broken, complaining about yet one more broken window in a house we don't own isn't the answer.
Get control of the house and then start the clean-up efforts. Anything else is likely to fall on deaf ears for just the reason you state. We need to deprogram an entire country. You can't do that via a media that is more propaganda than news. You can't do that when AM radio (where a large portion of middle America gets its information) is filled with hate and lies.
Just like the neocons didn't take charge overnight, but instead plotted a strategy that took 40 years to come to fruition. We need to be at least that strategic and patient as progressives who would see just about everything about how we do business in America changed.
As you said, this has been going on for decades and a single vote or a single election won't make a bit of difference. This will be a multi-generational effort.
June 23, 2008 9:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is rich coming from you, Jason. This is one of the most corrupting and corrupted bills to emerge from congress.
June 23, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
FISA is a non issue for most Americans. That is sad, but there it is.
This bill is no more grotesque and corrupted than the Medicare Part D bill or the Bankruptcy Bill or deregulating industries under Reagan and Clinton or any number of juicy corporate giveaways to come down the line over the last 40 years.
It is no less disgusting and corrupt than the 3/5 clause that kept half our nation in chains for nearly a hundred years longer than necessary.
It is no more heinous than a climate that gave us Jim Crow and another hundred years of lynching and subjugation of black Americans.
Come on, Bev, is this really the worst thing we have seen out of this government when it comes to dissing the Constitution? Hell, the FBI was way more intrusive in the 1960s than the FISA is today.
June 23, 2008 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Glen Greenwald is correct - the American people don't want expanded rights of the government to spy on people. Poll after poll says just that.
June 23, 2008 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
But FISA is about "terrorists" not the American people. That is what the "American People" believe about this issue. As long as the neocons have the Bully Pulpit of the presidency, that will be the frame that FISA resides in. Sad, but truly representative of the power of the presidency (even an extremely unpopular one) to shape the national narrative.
June 23, 2008 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink