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Misconceptions still linger


Now that we're all in this reconciliation mode, I felt a need to clarify a few points that I feel have been muddled along the way in the hope that it may resolve a few bitter thoughts. I'll take the risk that it just might reignite some smoldering embers but I just have this compulsion toward accurate perceptions. At least accurate in the way that I see the facts and as I am presenting them for all to critique.
The first is a misconception that the rules of the DNC's nomination process are faulty and contributed to Clinton's defeat. It was not the rules that were at fault at all. It was the breaking of the rules by the Florida and Michigan legislatures that led to a greater misunderstanding. The DNC disenfranchised no one. The Obama campaign in their negotiations for a resolution disenfranchised no one. The legislatures in the two states committed the disenfranchisement. This is a fact that needs to be made perfectly clear.
The rule to schedule small state primaries and caucuses first and keep larger states at a later date is a critical rule for a fair democracy and one Howard Dean deserves much credit for enforcing and defending. This allows lesser-known candidates with few funds to make a name for themselves with a few wins or good shows and then build a campaign that could then possibly compete fairly in a big state against a well-established candidate with national name recognition, wide-spread political infrastructure, and an influential donor base. If we were not to abide by this rule, our country would truly be run by large political dynasties and the people's democracy would be a farce. Just as Howard Dean deserves our sincere gratitude for his 50-state strategy in 2006, we also owe him much for standing up to the heat and protecting our democratic values in this presidential primary. 
The other perception I think is inaccurate is that the media contributed to Hillary's defeat. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my recollection is that the media had pretty much given Hillary the nomination before the first vote was even cast. I also remember nonstop loops and endless discussions of Obama's pastor and the "clinging" remark that Clinton advisors somehow managed to use to paint a South Chicago community organizer as an elitist. 
The Clinton campaign actually made skillful use of the media against Obama. He may never recover from some of it in Appalachia. But when the media went negative on Clinton was when she gave them good reason to. Inaccurate statements on Bosnia, Penn lobbying for free trade with Columbia, inflammatory rhetoric toward Iran, and numerous other misstatements and strategic blunders that I'm sure no one wants to see listed now. 
Toward the end, the Clinton campaign seemed to become a single-issue campaign. It appeared to me to be all about electing the first woman president. I would think that every good Democrat embraces this ideal and she has undoubtedly proven that its potential is political reality today. But her supporters should not let an attachment to this feat and the painful disappointment of not realizing it this time cloud their perception of the facts. Lingering anger vented in the wrong direction can only hinder our efforts to unite to achieve possibly the most crucial common objective we have had in a lifetime. 

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Sorry about the paragraph breaks. I thought for sure I had that down.

I couldn't disagree with you more. The problem was and has always been NH and the DNC being unwilling to enforce the rules when it comes to NH.

We owe Dean all the blame for this fiasco for giving NH, Iowa, and SC a waiver after they moved their primaries in blatant disregard of the rules.

If you're going to try to correct misconceptions don't just spew the simplistic MSM talking points. Do the research.

Tell us about the problems other states, especially MI, have had for at least a decade with the NH/Iowa lock as the first primaries. Tell us about the negotiations and the tough compromise that was arrived at prior to this primary that set the schedule this year. Tell us about how NH was scheduled to go third, Nevada second and Iowa first. Tell us your opinion of NH moving its primary ahead of Iowa and Nevada with no repercussions when you praise Dean for "protecting our democratic values." Tell us your opinion of the effect of NH moving its primary on Iowa, SC, MI and Fl moving their's.

That part of the story at least is non partisan. While there may be differences of opinion those differences are not related to the Clinton/Obama nomination fight. You've left out most of the story and thereby perpetuated the misconceptions rather than presenting an accurate rendition of the facts. Frankly given that you'll left out so many pertinent facts I think its likely you don't even know the whole story. Just the little pieces of it the MSM spoon fed you.

And this part of the story is just the beginning. Personally I don't want to get into another partisan brawl over what happened next. Suffice it to say I disagree nearly totally with your views. Just the same old spin from an Obama supporter paraded as an accurate rendition of the facts.

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I would think that the underlying principle to the "small states first" rule would be self-evident and not call for a debate such as the one you've raised. And the act of giving lesser-known candidates an opportunity to compete on a level playing field, I would hope, is more than just an MSM talking point. On the contrary, it was the point of my post that this principle seemed to have gotten lost in the emotion of "disenfranchised" voters which the MSM preferred to encourage.

The rescheduling of NH and IA slightly earlier did not violate the small state principle so the DNC felt no need for enforcement. But when MI and FL moved up into the small state/minority state window (NV and SC were chosen for their Hispanic and African American representations), the DNC rightfully could not allow this wrecking of a carefully crafted primary schedule.

Again, your anger should be directed toward Republican legislators in FL and MI, and not at the DNC.

I obviously threw gas on a still blazing ember instead of what I had hoped would have been the opposite.

Sorry.

Your facts are incorrect. You may believe in the small state rule but it was and is not the rule nor the principle the DNC used to schedule the primaries this year. Nor was it the plan for the future. The plan was to maintain Iowa's and NH's foremost role by keeping them in the first 4 but to not necessarily have them always as the first 2. That was why NH was scheduled third this year. That is why Nevada was given the second slot. The plan was to have 2 slots in the first 4 for Iowa and NH and 2 slots for other states. MI wanted to be in the first 4 and only accepted the compromise because NH was scheduled third thereby sending a message that there would be a change on its lock on the primary. MI was also promised that it would be in the first 4 in the next election cycle. NH promptly violated the compromise and set in motion all the subsequent problems.

As I said this part of the story is non partisan. It has nothing to do with the emotion of disenfranchisement since it precedes the issue of MI and Fl. Again I am not going to get into the next part of the story as much as you would like to draw me in because getting into a partisan brawl with hacks who don't know the facts and haven't been paying any attention to the story beyond the simplistic pablum the MSM feeds them seems like a waste of time.

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Notes from the Rules and Bylaws Committee Meetings prior to the start of the primary season everyone should find interesting:

http://www.democracyfornewhampshire.com/node/view/5786

And I have to agree with you. Trying to discuss this issue with you in a reasonable manner is a waste of time.

From your link

"In Michigan, they even removed their names from the Michigan Ballot except Hillary. She never plays by the rules unless she makes them herself."

This is a lie, completely false information. Followed by an insult. Biden, Richardson, Obama, and Edwards removed their names. Dodd, Kucinich, Gravel, and Clinton did not remove their names.

Would you feel it was an appropiate statement if made about Dodd?

In Michigan, they even removed their names from the ballot, except Dodd. He never plays by the rules unless he makes them himself.

So you expect me to trust the account given in your link when its undeniable false in at least one particular and clearly partisan. There are in fact several factual errors but the one above I feel is sufficient to discredit it.

What, did you think that because Clinton gave a speech you could post the same lies posted in the primary and Clinton supporters would swallow them whole? Most may vote for Obama but that doesn't mean their views on this primary contest have changed at all.

Why is it necessary to engage in personal attacks/insults with someone who has been respectful to you? Sure, you may have conflicting opinions, but it's great to have debates based on facts. That's how we learn.
You make it impossible to do this when you choose to deterioriate into disrespectful attacks. It's as if you don't have faith that your position is based on factual data, so you attempt to deflect positive communication by throwing out negative insults which have nothing to do with the base of the discussion. Why is that?

The misconceptions are yours sir. Howard Dean's "selective" punishments surely hurt Hillary more than Barack.

And with MSNBC/CNN smashing Hillary on a nightly basis along with the Blogosphere she was hurt mightily by the press.

Both are obvious to any observer.

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Neither was "hurt". They both signed pledges well ahead of the primaries that they wouldn't campaign nor would the votes count.

But in the end, Hillary was still given a net gain of 24 delegates.

Jeez.


She lost 11 primaries in a row and never caught up! What do you want the media to say? Even though she's behind, and she agreed that Michigan and Florida wouldn't count, that she was winning?

FYI. At the time, Harold Ickes championed and voted for these sanctions on the DNC Rules Committee. All the candidates including HRC agreed and supported the sanctions. There's even an audio tape of HRC saying 'the votes wouldn't count'. It wasn't Howard Dean who put forth the sanctions/rules - it was the DNC Rules Committee!
It was HRC and Ickes who 'retracted their agreements' - do you honestly think that they would have taken the same stance if it was HRC who had removed her name in MI and 'lost' in Florida? Do you honestly?
As far as CNN - they played the Wright tape 24/7 and Lou Dobbs was vicious towards Obama.
Bottom line, Hillary's campaign was mismanaged in all areas - Financial malfeasance to say the least and the list goes on. Hillary didn't lose because she was a woman or because the media was mean to her. Obama followed the rules and got the most delegates. She didn't.

Hey, aren't these horses all pretty much dead?

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I think I just saw that one twitch a little, so let me say that I (somewhat) agree with oceankat and Obamawon here. The system is broken and flawed. You can't blame Obama for that, nor is it fair to change the broken/flawed system once the voting has begun, but that doesn't make it any less flawed.

The DNC acted like those parents who dole out a punishment that was too severe, and then go back on it because they realize it was too severe, thus undermining their authority. Parenting 101 (I'm an expert because I have no children) says that you never threaten a punishment that you're unwilling to follow through with. A subset of that rule is not threatening unreasonable punishment. Stripping FL and MI of all of their votes (instead of merely half) crossed that line, IMO.

(That said, I do support a small states first strategy.)

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First, I have to apologize for beating up on lifeless horses, but when I read comments dropped in op-eds from prominent Democrats that continue to cloud the facts and prolong feelings of distrust or injustice, I feel a need to speak up.

On the parenting analogy, I don't think it works since most kids don't have the PR infrastructure or political clout to build up massive public opinion against your thoughtful parenting rules and try to make them appear irresponsible. And here, public opinion was threatening to burn the house down and put the family out on the street.

I have to concede a point to oceankat in that the state reps to the DNC from FL & MI were more complicit in the original problem than what I suggested by just blaming the states' Republican legislatures. I was mostly trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. But the fact that remains is that this DNC rule was founded on solid democratic principle and the DNC acted to preserve that principle with the only means it had at its disposal. If not, then we can expect New York, California, and Florida to all go first next time and we can say goodbye to democracy and hello big-money dynasties.

Maybe some horses should just be cremated before they start to stink.

Sorry again.

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