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Obama, you are something else.


It's interesting that we haven't heard much from Clinton supporters such as Stephanie Tubbs-Jones during this debacle. It's also interesting how the Clinton campaign has tried to blame others for its own repulsive gaffe.

I talked to my moms, staunch black Hillary supporter, about the RFK comment. At first blush, she was prepared to accept the Clinton campaign's weak defense on the basis of historical fact. I then asked her if she was aware of the many threats on Obama's life resulting in his receiving Secret Service protection a year earlier than most candidates. I also told her that Clinton knew this. I then asked her if this, combined with the many other racial attacks on Obama, changed anything for her in terms of her support of this candidate.

She told me she couldn't give a definitive answer and had to think about it.

She avoided my calls for almost a day.

Finally, she called and said slowly and with regret: "I think you might be right about her. I think you might just be right."

Thank you I said.

And to those who call Barack Obama weak, I counter that no man who knows that his bid for leadership of a nation might cost him his own life and his young daughters at any moment due to hate can be called a man without courage, purpose, grit and determination. I think it's wise for the Obama campaign to downplay this unfortunate and ugly aspect of his bid for the presidency. Even were he to be cut down in action today, this nation -- because of his hope and courage -- will never be the same again.


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Damn. We really should be able to edit our posts. Read this on http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/, An African American politics blog.

How many more times are you go
going to recycle this pig?

Can Obama droids only mutter,
repeat mutter, repeat mutter into the
continuum?

The hilarious part is how you recommend
yourselves over and over.

A xerox of a xerox of a xerox till all that's
left is the muddy grey, unreadable mind of the
Obamadroid.

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Just ignore them. HILLARY '08!!!!!


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

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If we simply agree with you, will you finally put a sock in it?

My question is, would you?

"The hilarious part is how you recommend
yourselves over and over."

Do you even know what you're babbling about? Stop embarrassing yourself.

It doesn't seem to have occurred to you that perhaps, after avoiding your "calls" for almost a day she might have decided that the only way to deal with your obsession was to humor you.

It also doesn't seem to have occurred to you that by saying, "Even were he to be cut down in action today...," you are making direct reference to the possibility of his assassination, which goes beyond the worst possible misinterpretation of what Hillary did.

You really are a piece of work. Get help.

I thought he was doing fine by himself, but sure, I'll help out. How many threats has Hillary received? How many violent comments about Hillary do you see on a typical blog vs. a violent comment about Obama? Was the last major political assassination a black or a female? If someone were off their rocker enough for your idea, do you think they'd be waiting for Hillary to push them completely over the edge? If something horrid like that happened, do you really think it would help Hillary, or destroy any remaining civility within the Democratic Party and lead to a McCain win? Can you tell me what other pages from my Encyclopedia Britannica I should remove now as unmentionable?

How many threats has Hillary received? How many violent comments about Hillary do you see on a typical blog vs. a violent comment about Obama? Was the last major political assassination a black or a female?

We don't know and maybe we shouldn't know for her protection. If she knows than she should be bit more cautious about the words she uses; and I am giving her the benefit of doubt.

The number of violent comments one may see depends on which blogs that person are visits. I love going to Politico because I feel a get a full view of the campaign. I have noticed that are positive and negative views, but not violent comments about Sen.Clinton, Sen.Obama and Sen.McCain.

Furthermore, if I find a site that is particularly nasty, I point my browser in a different direction. It is like having the remote control to the television at my finger tips.

Was the last major political assassination a black or a female? Does it really matter if it was a man or a woman? This isn't a contest to see who was assassinated last. Rather macabre dontcha think?

Desi, why complicate your avatar when you could just use the monkey?

(No offence to monkeys.)

Yeah, we could use a thinking monkey around here to balance out the one who doesn't.

It's a Chimp, for those too uneducated to understand the difference. Note the monkey's tail and primitive cognitive ability. Now step out of the shadows so I can count your appendages.

Hmmm, maybe you weren't trying to offend me, if so, just my primate responses taking over, mea culpa, bad chimp, no bischotti with cheese dip...

Thank you for your comment. We obviously don't agree. Have a nice day.

This just makes even more stupid for Hillary to have mentioned assassination. Why bring it up? Yes, she is endangered as well so don't put that image in anyone's mind. Period.

I don't want to see any of them assassinated. I don't want to THINK about it.

I've been thinking the same thing. There are too many unstable people out there. And just uttering the word alone was irresponsible and stupid. For everyone's safety, including her own.

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Hillary Clinton has 15 or so years of experience dealing with the secret service. She knows exactly how big an issue this is--for ALL parties.

Right. It's like saying "bomb" in an airport security line.

"If something horrid like that happened, do you really think it would help Hillary, or destroy any remaining civility within the Democratic Party and lead to a McCain win?"

Hillary believes it would give her the nomination so she can't help but think about it. She just doesn't have the political acumen to avoid mentioning it.

The Clinton's are so deeply invested in Obama's failure that they will not just hope for it, they'll work for it every day until she is elected president. It doesn't matter if it's this year or 2012 or 2016. They will never ever stop trying to undermine him.

Having the Clinton's permanently campaign for the end of Barack Obama's political career is everything Rupert Murdoch and Richard Mellon Scaife ever asked them to do.

You're really missing the point.

You're right that Clinton's statements are not going to inspire someone to kill Obama. This is not about inspiring an assassin; It's about the use of assassination as a political tool. Is the possibility that a candidate could be assassinated a valid reason to vote for another candidate? This is no different than showing Osama bin Laden in a campaign ad. It is the "politics of fear."

You've nailed it.

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Plee, you misspelled "crap"..

"It doesn't seem to have occurred to you that perhaps, after avoiding your "calls" for almost a day she might have decided that the only way to deal with your obsession was to humor you."

It did seem occur to me, after avoiding a response to your comment for 5 whole minutes after reading your nonsensical non-answer - that Otto, you are a smoldering piece of shit. There, I said it.

So one question is suddenly an obsession?
Maybe that's why so many medications are being prescribed.

Thanks, BSerious. You've explained to me why I find the admiration for Hillary's "grit and determination" so meaningless. Hillary has little to lose but face -- hardly in the same league as what Barack and Michelle have on the line. Yet it is she who whines while they exemplify that classic definition of what real courage is: "facing fear and doing what is required anyway" -- (I can't remember the attribution for that; sorry.)

The inference was there. I'm staying in this race in case something terrible happens to Obama.

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No, sorry but you are wrong. The inference was that Kennedy was heading into June behind in delegates. His assasination was a day I will always remember. MLKs also. People who were alive (or aware) think of it when they think of June. Just get over your simplistic analysis, okay?

Les, you may be right about the "inference" she was making, but how can you separate a mention of RFK being "assasinated in June" with the fact that he was assasinated in June? Simple answer, you can't. So Hillary either meant something ghoulish (which I don't think she did) or she referenced something ghoulish as a reason for her staying in the race. And her explanation was backpedaling nonsense, saying the Kennedy's had been much on her mind recently, even though she had mentioned RFK at least twice in the previous weeks, before Teddy got his terrible diagnosis.

It's reckless, and right in line with other reckless comments she's made, such as her endorsement of McCain as "CIC ready" in contrast to the babe in the woods and his "speech he gave in 2002".

She no longer gets the benefit of the doubt, don't you get it?

The situation that Kennedy faced vs. what Clinton is up against was fundamentally different.

In the wake of the CA primary, about 47% of the total delegates had been awarded (~1200/2600), whereas very nearly 93% of delegates have been awarded in this race (3755/4050).

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election%2C_1968#Democratic_Party_nomination
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

Clinton's case cannot rest soundly -- or even stably -- on a 40-year-old political calendar, given its poor alignment to current events. The remaining interpretation is that there are specific circumstances that can delay the determination of a the Democratic nominee. She was referring to events that triggered such delays, and in so doing positioned herself as the life insurance policy written against the presumptive nominee. At least that's the way it looked from over here.

Another stellar post bserious. Obama shows true grace under pressure. He has the courage and temperament to lead us in the difficult days to come.

I appreciate your post, BSerious.

Now, this part is directed to Desidero's comments:

I honestly don't want to believe that the a-word comment was a calculation on Hillary's part.

But her counter-accusation against her harshest critics, coupled with her lukewarm, tone deaf apology made me start to wonder about Clinton and her defenders (though BSerious is right--there aren't too many defenders speaking out in public), including you and OttoF.

I mean, what if the situation were reversed? Imagine Senator Clinton moving to the brink of clinching the nomination, and Obama, having no obvious path to winning it, suddenly referring to RFK's assassination during a conversation about his rationale for staying in the nomination race. Would Clinton's supporters be frightened and creeped out? Would they be willing to accept an explanation that he was just using a specific event--RFK's assassination, which happened in June as he was running for the nomination but had no other obvious similarity to the current situation--to make a generic point about primary timelines? Is it really so hard for Clinton and her defenders to understand why so many folks are freaked out?

OttoF is being ridiculous by saying that the comment BSerious made ("...if he were to be cut down in action today...") can be compared to Senator Clinton's remarks and judged to be worse. The two contexts and speakers involved are not comparable. Do you really think that comments on a blog have as much power as public remarks made by Senator Clinton, in an interview about her run for President? Seriously? Why are you defending OttoF?

That's why TPM is such a great site. There's even a sense of community among the trolls.

Cause he's cute? Cause he walks my dog? Because he owes me money? Why do you think?

Oh, Desi. I was making a serious comment. You're so much smarter than OttoF. (Sorry, Otto, but if you read Desi's stuff, you'll know that it's true).

I guess your just in the mood to be a big sillyhead today. (Saw your comment downthread about the water supply and ingestion of kool aid...nyuk, nyuk.)

It was a pun on "get help". But I already wrote enough about this in Flashback and Crazies. Little Des, almost 7 in June. What can I say, impressionable age. Think of me as in one of those Bruce Willis movies where I see the murder...

I enjoyed your flashback post. It made me reflect on how I perceived political events back then, too.

I don't remember when RFK was assassinated, but I vividly remember the day MLK was shot. I remember my mother and her friend sitting at the kitchen table, sobbing. I think it was the first time I'd seen grownups cry like that.

There was plenty to frighten and stun impressionable children back then, wasn't there? Political assassinations, civil rights unrest, war in Southeast Asia and the draft (which I feared would take my older brothers), violent war protests, cold war and the nuclear arms race...

Sorry I didn't comment on your flashback thread--there are a couple of pro-Hillary personalities I avoid completely. I try to just stay out of their sight so I don't become a target again. I'm not as feisty as you, so I hope you'll understand!

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They might be freaked out if they're hysterics given to gruesome flights of imagination, paranoia and hyperbole...

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There's so much to dislike and be horrified by in what Clinton said, but let me highlight something I haven't read too much about. And that's the fact that one thing she was doing, IMO, was trying to inject uncertainty into the perception of the outcome of the race and, in so doing, bully the superdelegates. "See? There's a chance of something bad happening, so voters should be worried about that. Maybe vote for someone safer. And supers? If the voters are worried, you should be worried too. Pick the safe nominee. Why be anxious when you can pick me and feel safe?"

And, a related thing that gets me, is that both Hillary and Bill want to be able to set that kind of thing in motion and then disavow that they had anything to do with it. Bill was just "stating facts" when he mentioned Jesse Jackson's wins after South Carolina. Hillary was just quoting an AP poll when she talked about "hard working voters, white voters." And she was just "stating facts" when she brought up RFK. They can't be held responsible if "just stating facts" sets off various lines of thinking in the minds of other people.

So dishonest. They're just so dishonest, the two of them.

Dont you just love how otto, desidero, and others (Lalo, louisville, billy glad, Bev D, to name a few) seem to constantly show up and have something snarky to say, no matter what the topic. It is so obvious that they are trolls, and there is no good reason to engage with them in conversation. It just encourages them, which is pointless, because their purpose is to troll and nothing else.


I'd love for any one of them to give us a realistic scenario that has Clinton getting the nomination, regaining a robust financial footing and winning the urban and suburban vote.
If they can't, then why not work to support the all-but-certain dem nominee? If those posters are real democrats, why invest so heavily in another democrat's failure?

Check Gallup in the Poll Tracker here at TPM. Or Newsweek. Or even Rasmussen. You'll get the idea.

Check May polls for a November election?

What else have you got?

You can't use polls from today to predict an election 6 months from now. Six months ago Hillary had it locked up:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2007/11/28/2007-11-28_black_voters_support_hillary_clinton_ove.html

Then her weakness as a candidate caused her to lose crucial blocks of supporters that she'll never ever get back. And since she even went broke doing it, why even discuss her viability as a nominee anymore?

Obama going race pimp lost him crucial blocks of supporters that he'll never ever get back.

He intentionally divided the party with racial inneuendo. Sow. Reap.

assclown.

How about the winner of the pledged delegate race? Would that work?

As self-satirizing and entertaining as they are, the real victims here are not the readers (us) but rather all the reasonable and well-meaning Clinton supporters out there who have to suffer the degradation of being associated with our resident panel of trolls. Heh, I wonder if this has anything to do with the late surge in super-delegate declarations for Obama...

No, that's from a steady stream of kool-aid ingested in the water supply. Google it. Clip clop clop splash.

Kool-aid references. Such original humor, get some new material.

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Whether any of those aforementioned posters are trolls or not, it is in poor taste to do a blanket call-out. I personally do not agree with many people on this site, but the real trolls are evident and I do not think your list hits on the real trolls.

To disagree is important when forming opinions - without outside pressure we begin to believe our own drivel and our egos get bloated and smelly. So rather than chase off all dissent, let's be a bit more tolerant.

It isnt dissent that anyone here has a problem with. It is people who are here for no other reason than to be disagreeable and insulting. They constantly make personal attacks on this site. Go back and read their comment histories. They are the ones who operate in bad taste, and should be called out on it, because their motives are dishonest.

I then asked her if she was aware of the many threats on Obama's life resulting in his receiving Secret Service protection a year earlier than most candidates.

Why lie to your Mom after all of these years?

But a Department of Homeland Security official said there is no known viable threat against the senator "at this time." The FBI confirmed that there was no specific threat against Obama.

Besides which Clinton was already receiving SS protection. Why bullshit your Mom?

Wow, what a ridiculous comment, as if assassins send out press releases before pulling the trigger. The SS obviously assessed the situation to be threatening enough to warrant protection. Are you disputing their assessment?

Gee, that's a tough call. "Black candidate running for President. Ayup. Needs Secret Service detail. Hold all calls, I'm going to lunch. What a tough morning of momentous decision making."

And Bush's Dept. of Homeland Security has been such a bastion of truth and justice. Of course I believe them!

After posting, it took me back to the top and I saw this...

...she was prepared to accept the Clinton campaign's weak defense on the basis of historical fact.

She was prepared to accept historical fact? What's wrong with that woman? Doesn't she know that Barry transcends historical fact?

Are you being purposefully dense? Bserious was saying her mother was prepared to accept the Clinton campaign's weak defense that the misstatement was meant only to highlight the date by referencing historical fact .

Also, there's a huge difference between "no known viable/specific threats" and "no known threats." VIABLE threats are the kind of thing that has candidates cancelling appearances.

Kind of like how our current administration keeps noting that we could suffer another terrorist attack at any time. It's true, but it's not immediately viable or specific... unlike getting a Presidential Daily Memo that says Osama Bin Laden may be working to attack the USA by crashing airplanes into skyscrapers (definitely specific and, as it turned out, viable).

Bserious, GREAT Post.Sounds like we've got the same Mom !. I have been having the same conversation with my Mom. A Hillary supporter who, is sad because since 2000 she thought this was Hill's TURN !! This RFK thing started her thinking... It will be interesting to see the polls next week.

The Clinton's problem is that they ran the right campaign for the wrong year ! Her year was 2004, not 2008.

Indiex, You are gonna have a constipated 8 years ! You are BLOCKED, Shit it out !!!

Just graduate from Mon Fertile finishing school?

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Do you really believe that Obama thought this comment increased the risk to his life?

If so, you need to ask why he had his campaign peddle it to media far and wide so that it received coverage for days rather than letting it stay buried as part of a not very interesting defense of why Hillary should stay in during June.


And about racial gaffes being part of any plan by Hillary -- gee, I guess she got to Biden early.

Obama encourages his supporters to presume the worst about any opponent: he is the Pied Piper of Hatred.


You and Sen. McCain will be very happy together.

And, on another note, you are lost, with little hope of being found. Obama is the "Peid Piper of Hatred"? Uh-huh. I paraphrase: "As far as I know...white Americans are supporting me, and RFK was assasinated in June". Yep, Hillary is all about the love.

With Honors .......

Come on now folks. Let us be reasonable, the Clinton way.

Every one knows that using words such as "Obliterate" and "Assassination" are much more benign than saying "Sweetie". The Clinton supporters were absolutely right to arouse a prolonged public furor over Obama having dropped the "Sweetie" bomb.


Haiku For Hillary.


Assassination!
Ted's Tumor made me say it;
Shame on Obama.

Assassination, Sweetie, Obliterate, etc. After all, according to Hillary, they're "just words."

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Barack Obama received secret service protection a year earlier than most candidates because he asked for it in May 2007. There were no known threats, according to reports, but his campaign staff made the request.

Now, there isn't one candidate running for that office that doesn't get secret service protection during the campaign and if he asks for it, he will certainly get it. There isn't one candidate either that isn't threatened with violence, no matter what his colour, sex or political ideology is.

Dubious. Have you "facts" to back up the argument that Obama asked for SS protection?

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Don't you think it would be a good idea if you are commenting on a subject, that you should do a modicum of research? The Chicago Tribune made that claim.

BevD, Barack was given SS protection because there WERE threats ! A candidate does not just get it if there were not threats.;Be FAIR and not silly ! PLEASE !!

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I don't mind discussing issues, but I really don't care for all the capitalizations and exclamation points - it looks like a 14 year old girl's myspace entry.

He was given secret service protection because he asked for it. All candidates running for that office are entitled, by law, to secret service protection. When and why they avail themselves of that protection is up to them. There isn't a day that goes by that these candidates don't get threats of violence to themselves and their campaigns - remember the nutcase that went into Clinton's NH campaign headquarters and held the workers there hostage?

Again - you ALWAYS have to make insults. (14 year old on myspace?) You are so bitter all of the time.

who cares if he asked for ss protection or not? It was a stupid comment that HRC made. I dont think she meant anything malicious, and she was probably just making a timeline reference to June. But she certainly came across as insensitive. Much like some of her supporters.

http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/Barack.Obama.president.2.336824.html

Excerpt:

But Thursday night, Sen. Dick Durbin said Obama has received specific, racist threats, which may have contributed to the increased security.

"It is the sad reality this day and age that Mr. Obama's African American heritage is a cause for very violent and hated reactions from some people," Durbin said.

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Bserious

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